this post was submitted on 06 Jun 2023
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Fediverse

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A community dedicated to fediverse news and discussion.

Fediverse is a portmanteau of "federation" and "universe".

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Reddit perma-banning account promoting Lemmy has Streisand effect (news.ycombinator.com)
submitted 1 year ago by humanetech@lemmy.ml to c/fediverse@lemmy.ml
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As Reddit's enshittification reaches new heights their attempts to suppress attention for alternatives, like federated Lemmy, has the opposite effect as this Hacker News discussion shows.

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[–] thoro@lemmy.ml 108 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (38 children)

Reading criticisms of Lemmy from Reddit and other platforms like HackerNews reminds me of reading criticisms of Reddit from Digg back in 2007-2010, except they're more based on architecture instead of "it looks ugly".

Now there are things that will turn away users. There's obviously a strong leftist culture here, there are less users so less content, and obviously federation is a stumbling block for many people.

But I really think that's ok similar to what people are saying in that Hacker News thread. I wouldn't want all of Reddit to come over, and I think it's better for the culture and growth here to get a self selected trickle/stream of users instead of a deluge.

I don't think Lemmy will necessarily have the same issues as Mastodon because Twitter/Mastodon requires you to know people or know accounts to follow to be useful. Lemmy just requires communities you're interested in and a critical mass of users to drive posting and engagement. We're already seeing greater activity as more users arrive

[–] humanetech@lemmy.ml 44 points 1 year ago (6 children)

That second comment by goplayoutside says it well: "Maybe the modest technical hurdles are a feature, not a bug."

I think it is a feature, and the same is true for Mastodon and the Fediverse as a whole, imho.

[–] Kichae@kbin.social 28 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I also see it as a feature. If instances have a natural active user cap, then server-based communities can't get so big as to outpace moderation. And admins have the ability to moderate local users' behaviour on off-site sublemmies by enforcing their own codes of conduct.

The internet used to be small, but expansive. It became big, but concentrated.

I liked the former. I know many people like the latter. Those people are welcome to their corporate slums.

[–] cavemeat@beehaw.org 13 points 1 year ago

I liked the former. I know many people like the latter. Those people are welcome to their corporate slums.

You've worded it well. I think the technical nature of it is to its benefit, and many server may not want to make the signup process easier, for the reasons you mentioned.

[–] animist@allthingstech.social 23 points 1 year ago

@humanetech @thoro I like it because it weeds out the type of people who would end up being low-effort posters, trolls, and spammers.

[–] smartwater0897@lemmy.one 11 points 1 year ago

Very much so. It shares the load, both from a technical point of view but also from moderation and maintenance point of view.

It's actually pretty great, all of this.

[–] wintrparkgrl@beehaw.org 7 points 1 year ago

While it keeps the willfully ignorant out, it can also keep people with learning disabilities out. Accessibility should always be worked on. That being said, Lemmy is certainly easy to access, Even more so than Mastodon IMHO because Mastodon you have to know people whereas lemmy all you have to do is sign up for a community

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[–] Ignacio@kbin.social 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There's obviously a strong leftist culture here

That depends on what instance you create an user on. For example, Lemmygrad.ml and Lemmy.ml are not the same thing, despite both belonging to Lemmy. The issues I see are having a tankie culture, and not having more points of view.

There are less users so less content

That's something we can help with, although it's not so easy. I mean, the users that are already here, we can create more content and interact more with each other, so eventually more users will come. It can be boring and tiring, but it's not impossible.

Federation is a stumbling block for many people

That's something absolutely new for the vast majority of people. I felt myself confused the first time I joined the fediverse too. But after some time, I felt myself less confused. Some clarifications, tutorials and support can do the real trick.

[–] CrimsonOnoscopy@beehaw.org 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I have to hope that main instances will stop federating Lemmygrad at some point. There's no place, IMO, for genocide denial/affirmation and authoritarian extremism on platforms like these. Or any platforms.

[–] skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

[This comment has been deleted by an automated system]

[–] darylsun@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

I don't think lemmy.one is deferated from Beehaw; I'm subscribed to one community there.

1st edit: I forgot this community isn't on Beehaw.

2nd edit: Here's a link of all the instances that Beehaw is federated with, and lemmy.one is one of them. sopuli.xyz and feddit.de too.

3rd edit: Apparently, I'm Jared, 19, and I cannot read. Sorry about that!

[–] kiwi@lemmy.one 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think the person above meant both beehaw and lemmy.one have defederated from lemmygrad.

[–] darylsun@beehaw.org 7 points 1 year ago

Oh... the wording confused me. Whoops!

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[–] argv_minus_one@beehaw.org 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Edit: Seems this is unfortunately unlikely as the lemmy.ml instance appears to be moderated by a genocide denier and authoritarian.

Who has reportedly been banning people for calling out said genocide denial and authoritarianism.

[–] CrimsonOnoscopy@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago

And they removed my comments among others, for calling the Chinese state a colonial and imperialist state.

[–] backpackn@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What will the next social media trend be? Seems like the centralized options are done for (FB, TW, Reddit), but they’re not being replaced by any single solutions. Tiktok took mainly genZ. Professionals have been wanting a twitter replacement to move to since musk and have yet to figure it out (bluesky, tribel, post social, takes, mastodon, etc has no apparent frontrunner). Political apps segmented some off like parler and the right stuff. Decentralized and foss apps have all kinds of solutions but won’t likely ever attract a huge crowd. So are we seeing the end of of an era of massive centralized social media?

[–] fuzzzerd@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 year ago

So are we seeing the end of of an era of massive centralized social media?

God, I hope so.

[–] smartwater0897@lemmy.one 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You can actually follow hashtags on mastadon, which is a lot easier then knowing users. :)

[–] Kichae@kbin.social 16 points 1 year ago

Yeah, but none of the Twitter people were using hashtags, and a lot of them where hyper-fixated on finding their Twitter mutuals. They were just trying pretend Mastodon was a drop-in replacement for Twitter.

They didn't want to create their own space in the new place, and they didn't want to integrate with those who were already there. They just kind of wanted to ignore the fact that anything was happening, while still, I guess, engaging in slacktivism.

[–] ipkpjersi@lemmy.one 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's not like there's not a strong leftist culture on reddit either so I don't really see that as a problem unique to Lemmy. If Lemmy can provide a centralized-like decentralized platform, I think it can succeed.

[–] thoro@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There isn't at all. Reddit is liberal at the very best and even then it's mostly Obama liberal, which is center right outside the most conservative parts of the world.

The leftist communities are much smaller, easily ignored, and often ridiculed in the mainstream subreddits. The gaming spaces complain about "wokeness" and criticisms of female representations among others. Thinly veiled racism and explicit transphobia abounds.

In contrast, Lemmy is full of anarchists, communists, socialists, and other anti capitalist. It has been and remains a dominantly leftist community.

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[–] responseAIbot@lemmy.ml 47 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I was made aware of lemmy because of this. Joined.

[–] ablackcatstail@goblackcat.net 10 points 1 year ago

@responseAIbot @humanetech I now have my next project: Lemmy. Going to start on it this afternoon.

[–] Anarcho_Mandalorian@lemmy.ml 22 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Lemmy structure very anarchist and I like it

[–] Alkalyon@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yeah, even some documentation sections look like manifestos but you can't disagree to be honest.

Reddit and the top media brought it on themselves.

[–] mrmanager@lemmy.today 9 points 1 year ago

I loved that page so much. It's 100% truth what has happened, at least in my opinion.

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[–] altair222@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago

the whole of the fediverse is like that

[–] elouboub@kbin.social 18 points 1 year ago (5 children)

A few hundred people will migrate but the majority will put up with shit, because they're used to swimming in it.

[–] tookmyname@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It will be a small percentage of Reddit. But even small percentage is way, way more than a few hundred. And the most active users (mods, post makers, etc.) are the most likely to move. The casuals who just scroll are the most likely to stay. It’s the former that make most of the content.

[–] Dasnap@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The question is if we'd even want the majority to migrate.

[–] Tordoc@beehaw.org 7 points 1 year ago

I personally migrated because I wanted to avoid the majority

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[–] blob42@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's a lovely news. Let them bleed.

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[–] osma@mas.to 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hilarious that a #HackerNews top voted comment on a post wrt #Reddit censoring mentions of #Lemmy effectively argues that the latter is "too geeky and hard to use" and that the former two won't be displaced because they're well known and easy to approach.

These people have ZERO self awareness. Never mind understanding about the legacy of their forums.

@humanetech

[–] nothendev@mastodon.ml 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

@osma @humanetech the same will happen with kbin, even tho its interface is hyper similar to reddit. pretty sure that's gonna be another case of "too geeky, unusable, unstable, useless, sh!tty reddit ripoff and bad".

the "useless", as one guy said (not on here) when i mentioned lemmy: "Another sh*tty reddit ripoff? Useless" is very funny

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[–] Sam_uk@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago

I think to an extent that depends on how much effort/funds the devs are willing to put in to keep sites online. Say 100k people want to come and have a look on the 12th. ~1/10 of those would create accounts, if the server falls over at 11am and stays down then only 10k people will see the site, maybe 1k sign up.

If the server is up all day then I think you'd see much larger adoption.

[–] Showervagina@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago

I'm here because they banned it. Figure if they are threatened by lemmy it must be good.

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