Technology
This is the official technology community of Lemmy.ml for all news related to creation and use of technology, and to facilitate civil, meaningful discussion around it.
Ask in DM before posting product reviews or ads. All such posts otherwise are subject to removal.
Rules:
1: All Lemmy rules apply
2: Do not post low effort posts
3: NEVER post naziped*gore stuff
4: Always post article URLs or their archived version URLs as sources, NOT screenshots. Help the blind users.
5: personal rants of Big Tech CEOs like Elon Musk are unwelcome (does not include posts about their companies affecting wide range of people)
6: no advertisement posts unless verified as legitimate and non-exploitative/non-consumerist
7: crypto related posts, unless essential, are disallowed
view the rest of the comments
I don't see the OS providing a unified UI that allows people to write apps as services as a problem. I'm likewise confused about what you're actually try to say here. You're conflating your ideological stance with technical functionality as far as I can tell. It's perfectly possible for an open platform to do the same things WeChat does, and that would result in a much better user experience than the current approach. I don't know why it's so hard for you to grasp this.
@yogthos They literally JUST banned and unbanned Tiktok at the whim of an annoying orange, and Twitter as we knew it is dead because of a rich billionaire.
You're glossing over real problems in the name of good ux.
What does this have to do with anything being discussed here.
@yogthos Everything, this entire thread and several others that people have started with you.
It's worth saying twice:
The client-server pattern perpetuates power imbalances, and "Super apps" make that problem much much worse.
It's just something you keep repeating, but that's just not true. Coupling the UI with the business logic of the application is a fundamentally wrong approach. It makes it effectively impossible to compose apps the way you can compose command line utils with piping. Apps should be designed as client/server by default, and then you could always leverage the service API for the app any way you want, slap a custom UI, use it in automation scripts, etc. Itβs just way more flexible that way.
@yogthos Nobody in their right mind couples UI to business logic, we have MVVM for that and it enables some very impressive integration and UI switching in apps.
However, thinking at the application level is ignoring everything I just said about the ways that apps communicate.
Pretty much no app provides APIs to access the business logic layer outside the UI. You're just trolling at this point.
@yogthos MVVM stands for Model-View-ViewModel, and is a pattern commonly used in dotnet and winui apps for decoupling backend business logic from frontend UI.
For example, this: https://youtu.be/Nb6fEeYfDAU
I feel like I'm the one being trolled here.
What on earth do you mean by "no app provides APIs to access the business logic layer outside the UI?" These apps are using APIs to begin with, the app doesn't NEED to provide them. The devs provides them to the app, the other way around.
I understand how MVC works perfectly fine. This is not what the discussion is about. What you're being told is that apps you'll find in the wild typically DO NOT provide APIs that can be leveraged in the way I described. You completely ignored that.
Show me what Android or iOS apps can be used at API level to create a custom UI on top of them using a third party app.
@yogthos
Also--- nobody is telling me. I've been doing this for over a decade.
Show me what Android or iOS apps can be used at API level to create a custom UI on top of them using a third party app.
@yogthos Bro that's not how apps work. What you're describing is a platform.
That's my whole point bro. This is how apps should work, but they don't work this way.
@yogthos You're describing a Platform, but we have an actual oligarchy of tech platforms now. When they get too big, they just become power grabs, hence why Mastodon and Lemmy and fedi in general started picking up recently.
It's not worth even a scrap of good UX if these platforms can take away our voices on a whim. Fedi is on the right track.
Again, there is absolutely nothing that prevents this from being implemented in open source fashion. And this is a completely different use case from Fedi. This is basically extending the Unix philosophy to applications and it would put control in the hands of the user in how they want to interact with the app. For example, you could take a bunch of apps and make your own custom UI that leverages their functionality to solve a specific workflow you have. Try stepping out of your demagogy for a minute and actually think about this.
@yogthos
Huh?
"Demagogy is the action or fact of winning support by exciting the emotions of ordinary people rather than by having good or morally right ideas."
Are you saying that fedi isn't a morally good idea?
I agree that morals should fuel our discussion and not emotion, but I'm sensing strong emotions from you.
Regardless, I see what you're saying because I've built things like this. I specialize in abstractions in my work-- Strix Music is a prime example of that.
I'm saying this is a completely different use case from fedi. Perhaps you might be having strong emotions that you're projecting onto me here?
I've also built this type of software and the benefits are very clear to me.
@yogthos I've enjoyed our discussion, but I don't appreciate the strong language, the projections, or the claims of others projecting in order to defend your own projections. Thank you for engaging with me, see you around.
Weird thing to say after trying to psychoanalyzing me. See you around I guess.