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this post was submitted on 14 Jul 2025
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(back at work and on a real key board now so I can do longer formed responses)
But this is also why we need the tools I'm building. What I'm talking about can only really be "witnessed", outside of anectdata, in the aggregate. If you wanted to help, I'm need to find specific instances of this happening and the Ozma one is low hanging fruit because the mod who did the ban said in precise language that it was being done in an effort to control the narrative (regardless of if you agree with the editorial bias or not, I think we take jordan at their word). Agreeing with the political bias of the ban, doesn't mean it wasn't an example of an authority (a mod) using that authority to structure the political narratives of the commons, which is what I'm trying to identify.
Specifically, there are a few mods who regularly were getting into flaming arguments which would result in them banning the counter party. flyingsquid was notorious for this, and its a task I need to do to validate a system for automatically identifying its occurrence. I need a couple real examples, so if you find any, send them my way. Some other good subs to look for are c/world and c/political_memes. Squid would regularly flame people then ban them.
And as far as "endless stream"; thanks, because that gave me another task to put on the to do list. What Ozma got banned for isn't actually what I'm really looking for (although it could be, but its beyond my original scope). What I'm really looking for are bans related to things that happen in the comments. But it would be important to getting a complete picture to also look at someones posts and maybe try and look at how that impacts narratives. That's a much more difficult process though, but I'm sure in review we'd get asked why we didn't do that.
so can u tell me more about this project wen u have time? I previously commented to you that I think it's sick. but are you using it to attack users or to find out bad mod actions and proof of mods and admins and people like @PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au who obsess and witchhunt people they disagree with?
Certainly! I can also give you code you can work and play around with yourself. I'm more than happy to send you some boiler plate you can play around with yourself.
Well, not really any of the above. I've tried with some mild success to build a "troll detection" system, but it needs far more work. Also, in the months since my initial work on this matter, I've found some far better approaches and would want to implement them. So my old work isn't reflective of the new direction I'm planning to take.
Fundamentally, I'm interested in these things from an academic perspective. How do conversations (debate) online work? What governs them? There are obviously rules (you can read them on the side bar), but there are also "rules" that aren't written on the side bar. What are the unwritten rules?
What does it take to "change" someones mind? Or, more broadly, what does it take to change a communities mind? How do power dynamics play into that? For example, you've probably read my thread with @PhilipTheBucket@quokk.au at this point about the power mods have to steer the direction of a community.
Part of the reason I'm interested in this is because its part of my lived experience. I watch how myself and others were, frankly, absolutely brigaided against, for months, years on end, for holding critical but important positions on the Democratic party. It was very, very bad. We had opinions that were not very popular at the time and suffered as a result. But things changed, and time has shown we were right in our criticism. So what dynamics were at play that resulted in those perspectives being at first oppressed/ suppressed, to then become the dominant narratives? How does that work? What is its function?
Beyond that, I'm a quantitative person. I want a number at the end of the day; as shocking as it might be with all my discussion of narrative, at the end of the day I want a number, something solid I can stand on. So doing this kind of work in my own way, I want to find a way to quantify these things. Its not enough for me to simply look at an encode the stories; I want to put a number on it. That means building things up to be reproducible and automated to support large, if not census, level samples.
Finally, I really like doing network analysis. Its something I do professionally, but its just something I think is neat. Taking all of those previous questions and putting them into the context of a social network, thats something that sounds really challenging and fun to me.
And in regard to your other question:
I mean, you do realize that anyone, quite literally anyone, could form a 1 person instance and vacuum up all comment, post, etc.. data from every other instance? I don't have issue with it, in the same manner that I don't have issue someone going through all 9k of my comments and reading them. If I didn't want them to be made public, I wouldn't make those comments. There are things I don't say because I don't want that information to be made public. Fundamentally these things are about power dynamics. For something to be fascistic or controlling I would have to have power over someone or something. I don't. I have no secret access to any secret information, I have no power over any one or any thing. I'm simply working with and observing what is present.
This is a somewhat famous thread here that I recommend you read all of the comments of. Its the one @PhillipTheBucket@quokk.au and I are discussing. It also highlights the dynamic I'm interested in illustrating. Here is the link: https://lemmy.world/post/16224102?sort=Top
I recommend sorting by "Top" and reading through the first couple comment threads from top to bottom. Then scroll to the very bottom and read the comment threads in reverse order, basically most down voted. This should give you an idea for the type of dynamic I'm identifying, and the research I'm interested in conducting is how this dynamic shifted within our community. These days you would see an inversion of which narratives are being upvoted and which ones are being down-voted. So how did that come to be?
u are right that mods banend pepole for talking against the dem talk here. lemmy def tries to stifle voices. it's better now, but befor eelection, it was so blatent. Anyone who supported thrid party were attacked. but yoru tracking program still sounds icky.