this post was submitted on 05 Oct 2023
385 points (98.2% liked)
Canada
7215 readers
475 users here now
What's going on Canada?
Communities
🍁 Meta
🗺️ Provinces / Territories
- Alberta
- British Columbia
- Manitoba
- New Brunswick
- Newfoundland and Labrador
- Northwest Territories
- Nova Scotia
- Nunavut
- Ontario
- Prince Edward Island
- Quebec
- Saskatchewan
- Yukon
🏙️ Cities / Local Communities
- Calgary (AB)
- Edmonton (AB)
- Greater Sudbury (ON)
- Halifax (NS)
- Hamilton (ON)
- Kootenays (BC)
- London (ON)
- Mississauga (ON)
- Montreal (QC)
- Nanaimo (BC)
- Oceanside (BC)
- Ottawa (ON)
- Port Alberni (BC)
- Regina (SK)
- Saskatoon (SK)
- Thunder Bay (ON)
- Toronto (ON)
- Vancouver (BC)
- Vancouver Island (BC)
- Victoria (BC)
- Waterloo (ON)
- Winnipeg (MB)
🏒 Sports
Hockey
- List of All Teams: Post on /c/hockey
- General Community: /c/Hockey
- Calgary Flames
- Edmonton Oilers
- Montréal Canadiens
- Ottawa Senators
- Toronto Maple Leafs
- Vancouver Canucks
- Winnipeg Jets
Football (NFL)
- List of All Teams:
unknown
Football (CFL)
- List of All Teams:
unknown
Baseball
- List of All Teams:
unknown - Toronto Blue Jays
Basketball
- List of All Teams:
unknown - Toronto Raptors
Soccer
- List of All Teams:
unknown - General Community: /c/CanadaSoccer
- Toronto FC
💻 Universities
💵 Finance / Shopping
- Personal Finance Canada
- BAPCSalesCanada
- Canadian Investor
- Buy Canadian
- Quebec Finance
- Churning Canada
🗣️ Politics
- Canada Politics
- General:
- By Province:
🍁 Social and Culture
Rules
Reminder that the rules for lemmy.ca also apply here. See the sidebar on the homepage:
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Considering that if you aren't making a lot, you can get quite a bit of money every month for each kid through child benefits until they are 18, I don't think the cost of housing is the issue.
Here's a radical thought: Maybe people simply don't want to be burdened by kids.
Perhaps if we stopped pressuring mothers into believing that they NEED to have kids, or that couples can't be complete without a real family.
Maybe then we can start normalizing the fact that not everyone actually wants (or needs) kids.
EDIT: For you idiots downvoting, could you at least read the study? It agrees with what I wrote!
That's a joke, right? When I looked it was only 500 to 620 a month per kid.
You have baby items to worry about, needing a crap ton of clothes (kids grow a LOT), having adequate nutrition (growth spurts too), school supplies, and more. If you're already barely making ends meet, of COURSE you'll struggle if you add another human being. Of course, cost of living also varies by area, as well as public transportation. Without that, you'd have to hope that you live near essentials like a family doctor, or you'd have to pony up even more money for a car and child seat.
If that's not enough, you also get the fun of society looking down on your for "having kids before you were ready". Many of us heard that from adults throughout the entire time we grew up. Why voluntarily walk into that? Nah. IF I ever have a kid, it won't be untilI can guarantee that that doesn't happen.
I think they misunderstood a Stats Canada paper to get a wildly unrealistic cost estimate. I linked it and some numbers in a reply further up.
I've raised two, and they are rising their own.
If an extra 500+ a month isn't enough, then you are overspending for no good reason!
Buy second hand, learn how to be frugal with certain items, get most larger items from a baby shower (if you have one), etc., don't get sucked into blitz marketing that targets new parents, etc.
Kids become more of a financial burden when they grow up... age 10-18 and beyond, and that money is still rolling in.
That's my point from my original comment. Society is pressuring people into “wanting” kids, but a great number of people simply don't, and that's OK!
Housing is an easy example. One bedroom or bachelor's pads are, in my area, ~1200/month. Not the nicest ones at that price, but decent. You jump up to a two bed or a Ben+a den, and you're looking at 1800/month at least. At a three bed, it's close to 2500/month.
Even if you assume those are on the larger side for price jumps, if you're barely able to scrape by with two people in a bachelor's apartment or in a one bedroom, there's no way you can "afford" it solely by CCB benefits. Almost all the benefit is eaten up by housing increases alone! Then add on childcare, and CCB isn't enough to give those feeling like they're just hanging on wiggle room to raise a child.
Kids are an enormous financial burden early on, especially for the small things. Kids get sick a lot, so you need to have a job that will allow you flexibility, or else you'll lose money for unpaid days off for doctors appointments or to sit at home with them when they're puking.
Kids need daycare unless youre staying home, which is suuuuper expensive these days. They also have limited hours, which if you're stuck working a shitty job, you may not be able to make.
Even second hand, clothes are expensive, and with how fast kids grow, it's an expense worth noting.
All in all, if you're well off, yeah it may not be a big problem for you, but for the people that are already struggling, it's a large factor into why they're not having kids yet.
FYI: Stats Canada published recent data on the cost of raising a kid in Canada (how much parents spent). It's estimated that low-income homes spend around $30,000 for a child from 0 - 12 years of age ($214 / month on average).
Just throwing in some numbers in the child benefit calculator for two people making $35,000 each with around $1200 in rent a month, they'd get $207 in child benefits + other benefits (climate action incentives, etc.).
$7 out of pocket to spend on the kid... if you are overspending like people usually do.
But I do agree that there are areas where kids can be more expensive, like high-cost daycare. This is less of a concern in multi-generational families or single-income families, where the child can be watched by their parent or family member (more common in Canada, especially among immigrant families).
These are things that vary from family to family, and are ever-changing – you can't predict what expenses you'll have 10 year from now. What if the kid is born with a special need? This goes well beyond the “cost of living”.
Kids are not risk-free, and we shouldn't act like money is the only factor here.
If this is the link you're talking about, your numbers are way off - https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11f0019m/11f0019m2023007-eng.htm
That shows that even for low income families (<83k/yr), they spend an average of 14,000$/yr on each child. That's way higher than your estimated 30,000/ages 0-7, so I'm curious where you got your data from.
I don't discount that there's a societal push for people to get older and make sure they're confident in wanting kids before they have them, and with low cost birth control we've reduced accidental pregnancies, but cost is still an enormous factor.
Costs have increased significantly in the past few decades.
The only after school care available in my community costs around $400/mo. I'm in a rural area, so it's probably higher in cities.
Daycare may be cheaper now due to the $10/day thing, but I'm not sure how many spots are available.
Swimming lessons are $200-300. Sports typically run for a season, but they start around $200. We've got our kids in "cheap" sports, but even then, costs add up.
I know not everyone wants to hear it, but having a child requires sacrifice.
If it's more affordable/practical to have one parent stay at home with the child, while the other works, then that's what needs to be done. There's no shame with one parent watching their own kid while their partner works, then their partner can care for the child while the other goes to their job.
These are things that need to be planned and discussed BEFORE having a child. It's all part of the deal.
Sports have always been expensive, and prohibitive to the point of discriminating against low-income families. This is not a childcare issue, but an issue with how sports and services are being delivered. I went through the same with gymnastics for our daughter, and various activities for our son, so I completely understand how unfair that is.
Your anecdote does not exist in today’s world. They do not compare.
OK boomer