this post was submitted on 16 May 2024

66 points (63.1% liked)

politics

19238 readers

2125 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

• Register To Vote

• Citizenship Resource Center

• Congressional Awards Program

• Federal Government Agencies

• Library of Congress Legislative Resources

• The White House

• U.S. House of Representatives

• U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

• News

• World News

• Business News

• Political Discussion

• Ask Politics

• Military News

• Global Politics

• Moderate Politics

• Progressive Politics

• UK Politics

• Canadian Politics

• Australian Politics

• New Zealand Politics

founded 2 years ago

MODERATORS

outrageousmatter@lemmy.world

aidan@lemmy.world

jordanlund@lemmy.world

HLMenckenFan@lemmy.world

little_cow@lemmy.world

Joe Biden has done more than arm Israel. He’s complicit in Gaza’s devastating famine (www.independent.co.uk)

submitted 7 months ago by IndustryStandard@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world

68 comments fedilink hide all child comments

President Joe Biden and his administration have been accused of being complicit in enabling a famine in Gaza by failing to sufficiently act on repeated warnings from their own experts and aid agencies.

The former officials say the US also provided diplomatic cover for Israel to create the conditions for famine by blocking international efforts to bring about a ceasefire or alleviate the crisis, making the delivery of aid almost impossible.

“This is not just turning a blind eye to the man-made starvation of an entire population, it is direct complicity,” former State Department official Josh Paul, who resigned over US support for the war, told The Independent.

top 50 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] logicbomb@lemmy.world 73 points 7 months ago (7 children)

Because this is politics, and the US has only two possible options in November, it is good to remember that Trump told Israel that it should "end the problem" of Gaza.

Even if you don't like Biden on this issue, it is imperative to vote for him in November. A non-vote for Biden is almost as bad as a vote for Trump.

I can guarantee MAGA will have no qualms voting for Trump despite his genocidal tendencies. If you don't vote for Biden and Trump wins, you will be responsible for a lot of suffering.

[–] slurpinderpin@lemmy.world 42 points 7 months ago

Kushner has already drawn up plans for the condos they’re gonna build in Gaza after they bulldoze it. People are so fucking stupid if this is the reason they don’t vote for Biden. It will literally get much worse

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 11 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Even if you don’t like Biden on this issue

No one should like Biden on this issue.

[–] bashbeerbash@lemmy.world 11 points 7 months ago (23 children)

Don't worry, when Trump wins we won't have to worry about Gaza or palestinians in general!

load more comments (23 replies)

[–] Neon@lemmy.world 5 points 7 months ago

We are so gonna see a pickachuface moment, aren't we?

I am so sorry for you all over there.

But hey, at least you will have the privilege of Schadenfreude! Gotta stay positive, am i rite?

load more comments (4 replies)

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 20 points 7 months ago (5 children)

The majority of Palestinian deaths came after the last ceasefire. The UN Security Council demanded another ceasefire exactly like the armchair diplomats demanded, and yet it made no difference at all. At what point do people realize that foreign policy is complex as fuck and that knee jerk solutions, however well intended, are not the real answer?

We don't need a ceasefire, we need a peace. That requires careful application of power and influence across multiple warring cultures with a crazy web of often contradictory alegences. That's the goal that the Biden administration has been working towards, and abandoning Israel would be a disaster for everyone.

With or without US support, Israel can destroy Gaza. Israel has twice the population of Palestine, is far better armed already, and their people are better educated and have access to food and medicine. Israel also has a right wing Prime Minister who's entire political image is based on anti-Palestinian racism. Throw in the fact that he might face trial as soon as he leaves office, and it becomes clear he is not backing down.

The new shipments recently announced are for some time in 2026 at the earliest. They are of no assistance to Israel until then and, until that time, they are leverage.

I make no defense for Israel's actions in this conflict, the illegal settlements, or the apartide system they benefit from. I also disagree with a whole lot about the Biden administration's response to this conflict, and to the protests within the US. However, it's a far more complicated situation than many understand. People should also keep in mind that foreign policy strategies often collapse if talked about publicly.

[–] shikitohno@lemm.ee 10 points 7 months ago (2 children)

abandoning Israel would be a disaster for everyone.

How would this be a disaster for anyone but Israel? Worst case scenario, it's a disaster for Zionists, the US military industrial complex profitting off them, and whatever portion of Israel's population opposes Israel's apartheid ethno-state, and I've only got sympathy for the last of them. At worst, it's an inconvenience for the US with Iran. Other than that, let Israel get rocked by sanctions and smacked around by their neighbors they've been antagonizing for decades with US support. Let Israelis go be refugees if necessary and there's an actual threat of loss of life. Otherwise, whoop dee doo, cutting off Israel means they get what they're due for. Israel is not some essential nation that the world would fall apart should it cease to exist in its current form.

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

The US abandoning Israel would throw the whole region into turmoil. Iran and/or it's proxies would become far more hostile and Israel would no longer be willing to even pretend to tolerate a hostile force within its own boarders. Both Gaza and the West Bank are just gone. Israel would start cutting deals with US rivals which would have global implications.

US pulling out of Israel would be the most chaos inducing event in world history.

[–] shikitohno@lemm.ee 7 points 7 months ago (1 children)

US pulling out of Israel would be the most chaos inducing event in world history.

This is pure hyperbole. The most chaos you could get from this would be from Israel lobbing a nuke before getting taken out, which they already essentially threaten as it stands.

And what US rival is Israel going to find to replace it that has both the desire and means to do so? China and Russia don't stand to benefit from that, even if they wanted to pump billions of dollars into Israel a year. They already have influence in the region with other powers the US is hostile to, like Iran. Israel is increasingly internationally discredited, so it's not as though they're going to get a great diplomatic boost. They already have nuclear weapons of their own and pretty developed intelligence apparatuses. What would be the point of taking on such a massive liability?

And let's not forget that the region is in turmoil to begin with in large part because the US keeps intervening in it, as well as supporting Israel and other shitty governments in the region that are favorable to the US in some way. Israel itself destabilizes the region.

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You don't think Russia and China stand to benefit from Israeli knowledge of US arms technology? What about the massive PR win for Russia? They already use an imagined Nazi threat to justify their wars of aggression.

There are three regional powers in the Middle East. The US has Israel and Saudi Arabia, and Russia has Iran. You don't think Russia wants to flip that math? Controlling that much oil would eliminate whatever vulnerability they have to sanctions.

Israel is hardly discredited, whatever the hell that means. Maybe in Internet culture, but not in geopolitics. Russia is doing almost exactly what Israel is on a much broader scale right now. The International community cares about as much about the Palestinians as they do about the Rohingya or the Darfuri, both of which are suffering ongoing genocides that I bet you didn't even know about. The world should care, but it really doesn't.

The problems in the Middle East are about a lot more than US meddling. Much of it goes back to before the US even existed. Not that the US has helped much, but it was the British Empire that setup ridiculous borders that all but guaranteed eternal conflict.

[–] shikitohno@lemm.ee 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Israel is only a regional power by virtue of the US propping it up, it cannot maintain that status on its own. Why on earth would either Russia or China want to take that on, when they could just do nothing and watch Israeli power plummet.

Israel is hardly discredited, whatever the hell that means

Israel has no large, international backer that is both willing and able to step up and provide cover for it like the US does, and it lacks the might through its own weight around like Russia or China have long term. Without the constant backing of the US to shield from.the consequences of its actions, Israel would become the pariah state it rightfully should be.

The International community cares about as much about the Palestinians as they do about the Rohingya or the Darfuri, both of which are suffering ongoing genocides that I bet you didn't even know about.

And a lovely bit of whataboutism to round things out from you. Unfortunately for you, my memory is longer than a news cycle, but cute attempt at sounding like you were digging deep there.

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Israel is only a regional power by virtue of the US propping it up.

Where did you pick that nonsense up? Annual US aid amounts to around 15% of Israel's military budget. That's $3.8b compared to a GDP of $500b. It is a regional power with or without the US. US aid is in exchange for maintaining a major US military base in Israeli territory and access to Israeli intelligence. Israel spends more money on purchasing US weapons than it receives in US aid. US weapons also rely on technology designed and produced in Israel.

Why on earth would either Russia or China want to take that on, when they could just do nothing and watch Israeli power plummet.

Why on earth would Russia or China want to watch Israeli power plummet when they could use it to project power into the Middle East and access it's resources? Why do you think the US is there?

And a lovely bit of whataboutism

It's not Whataboutism, I was just explaining how foreign policy works. It's clearly a topic of which you know very little. I'm not saying it's OK that Israel commits a genocide because others do it, I'm saying that the international community doesn't react to genocide like you or I do. They will praise, condemn, or ignore it based on their own national interests. That's not how I think it should work, it's how it does work.

[–] shikitohno@lemm.ee 2 points 7 months ago

Where did you pick that nonsense up? Annual US aid amounts to around 15% of Israel’s military budget. That’s $3.8b compared to a GDP of $500b. It is a regional power with or without the US. US aid is in exchange for maintaining a major US military base in Israeli territory and access to Israeli intelligence. Israel spends more money on purchasing US weapons than it receives in US aid. US weapons also rely on technology designed and produced in Israel.

This isn't just about Israel's military budget. That helps, sure, but it's pretty crucial that Israel gets shielded from the consequences of its actions by the US constantly. If Israel were to start facing sanctions or have its saber-rattling no longer backed up by the threat of US intervention, be via sanctions or interceding directly, Israel would be a much less imposing power in the region. Military support is not the only measure of US support for Israel.

Why on earth would Russia or China want to watch Israeli power plummet when they could use it to project power into the Middle East and access it’s resources? Why do you think the US is there?

They could literally do the same thing without a) having to provide Israel ongoing material support and diplomatic cover, b) risk getting dragged into conflicts that don't benefit them by Israel, and c) alienate their existing allies in the region by backing a hostile power.

Israel provided a convenient foothold for the US half a century ago, when the surrounding Arab nations were more hostile to them. The situation has changed remarkably, and Israel is no longer unique in being willing to work with the US. Israel has, in fact, been a liability in making progress with this until relatively recently. But, sure, let's piss off the rest of the region so we can get Waze and some Israeli clementines out of things, seems like a good trade on the balance of it.

You want to claim I know so little about foreign policy, but you quite conveniently omit the many drawbacks to supporting Israel, as well as any of its weaknesses.

[–] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works -1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Well they do have nukes... So if a bunch of crazy religious folks get backed into a corner conventionally with their neighbors it could end very badly.

[–] shikitohno@lemm.ee 3 points 7 months ago

That sounds more like a reason that western powers should have already nipped this in the bud long ago, rather than a reason to continue to give them carte blanche to commit war crimes. They already dropped the ball on that front, so realistically, they ought to be coming up with strategies to neutralize Israel, rather than embolden it. Perhaps they could take a page from Israel's book and carry out some strikes preemptively exercising their right to self-defense and dismantle the Israeli military and government.

Israel's unchecked existence is a liability to everyone, but it's not going to get any better by letting them go even longer.

[–] Krono@lemmy.today 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

[Peace is] the goal that the Biden administration has been working towards

Yeah totally, the guy who has shipped 300,000 bombs to a genocidal warlord is actually working for peace! And anyone who disagrees just doesn't understand the complexity of the situation. /s

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I don't know where you got that 300k number from, but I clearly said that I disagree with much of Biden's response.

Saving Palestinian lives is sadly not a strategic goal of US foreign policy. This is true for Biden, his election opponents, and every US President since WWII. However, general stability in the Middle East is very much a strategic goal, and that is not well served by Israel's recent actions. So yeah, the US is going to support it's ally Israel while working towards peace. This is not out of altruism, it's in service to it's own strategic interests. Everything in foreign policy eventually comes down to competing interests and power, and that's not just an American thing.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

However, it’s a far more complicated situation than many understand. People should also keep in mind that foreign policy strategies often collapse if talked about publicly.

How utterly convenient for pro-genocide centrists.

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 3 points 7 months ago (5 children)

But I'm not either, as I made quite clear.

load more comments (5 replies)

load more comments (2 replies)

[–] MisterD@lemmy.ca 12 points 7 months ago

Meanwhile, Biden tried to stop arms shipments to Israel and Biden got vetoed by the Republicans in Congress

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-house-votes-force-weapons-shipments-israel-rebuking-biden-2024-05-16/

[–] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 8 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Horrific. What can we as individuals do to help alleviate this situation?

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 15 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

The college protests actually seem to have raised the pressure on Israel, and have started to spread in Europe. I think that joining with that effort is probably the most impact that average citizens can have. That and donate to charitable organizations bringing aid to Gaza, even if that aid is currently being blocked.

[–] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

The boycott movement on tiktok and other social media seem to be doing something as well. Considering McDonald's is starting to issue statements bemoaning the boycott and how they have never supported Israel, or something like that.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

The college protests actually seem to have raised the pressure on Israel

How have they changed the way Netanyahu pursues genocide?

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Just the fact that he felt the need to address them himself on TV is evidence that he feels pressure. I never claimed they were changing the course of history, but if you have better suggestions then please make them.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

but if you have better suggestions then please make them

I keep making it: Biden should stop sending Netanyahu weapons for genocide.

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 0 points 7 months ago (2 children)

The question was what can we as individuals do? Anyways, US aid generally accounts for around ,15% of Israel's defense budget, and there are plenty of other countries from which to buy bombs.

load more comments (2 replies)

[–] autotldr@lemmings.world 2 points 7 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:

A spokesperson for the White House National Security Council said: “Since the beginning of this conflict, president Biden has been leading efforts to get humanitarian aid into Gaza to alleviate the suffering of innocent Palestinians who have nothing to do with Hamas.”

The same day Mr Ryan described Gaza’s grim outlook, White House national security communications adviser John Kirby defended the Biden administration’s decision to suspend aid to UNRWA.

“Today’s attack on one of the very few remaining UNRWA distribution centres in the Gaza Strip comes as food supplies are running out, hunger is widespread and, in some areas, turning into famine,” he said, adding that the coordinates for the facility were shared with the Israeli army.

In an opinion piece headlined “Let People Eat” published in The New York Times in the days after the killings, Mr Andrés said the strike was “the direct result of a policy that squeezed humanitarian aid to desperate levels”, and accused Israel of “blocking food and medicine to civilians”.

A separate memo written by USAID officials for Mr Blinken and leaked to Devex found that Israel may be violating a White House directive requiring recipients of US military assistance to permit the unimpeded delivery of US-funded humanitarian support.

Yet another memo leaked to Devex by food security experts was titled “Famine Inevitable, Changes Could Reduce but Not Stop Widespread Civilian Deaths.” It said that “Israel-imposed administrative challenges are preventing the delivery” of lifesaving humanitarian assistance.

The original article contains 4,912 words, the summary contains 242 words. Saved 95%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

load more comments