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Apparently the debris found was "a landing frame and rear cover from the submersible". So it sounds like they didn't have to suffer slowly.
I’m surprised by the amount of people who thought they would die from running out of oxygen in 96 hours or whatever it was. At that depth the tiniest structural failure and that sardine can is going to blow into pieces, including the occupants.
They were dead days ago when they first went missing.
A few innocent people are the victims of one conman’s dream of selling titanic tours.
At that depth the tiniest structural failure and that sardine can is going to blow into pieces
The opposite of blowing up, actually.
Not sure I'd call him a con man, if he believed in it himself. He was on the ship, if I heard right.
So he conned himself. A common thing for grifters when their schemes aren't actually that smart.
(but at least he got that jawbreaker)
He was conning himself too. He was too excited to be doing something that he didn't care to listen to warnings or heed regulations. He wanted to be a trailblazer, but his eyes were bigger than his plate, if you will.
Yes, there has been successful trips that he's taken tourists down to the titanic and back. However, his track record isn't rock solid. His original design wasn't rated for the depths he was going. It wasn't until a whistleblower came out (which he retaliated against by firing btw) that the submersible porthole was redesigned. Who knows if the "redesign" was actually rated for the depths he was travelling. All we know is that he "replaced" it.
This is the same person that said safety regulations stifle innovation. Yeah, regulations might slow down innovation but you know... they're intended to keep people alive. The Titan wasn't certified by any governing body to travel to the depths it was going.
He didn't fully disclose to his travelers what they were getting themselves into. People say they had to sign a waiver. There's a waiver I got to sign to a eat spicy chicken sandwich at a local restaurant joint. I got to sign a waiver to park my car in a parking lot. You think 100% of people actually read them? It's just like software terms and conditions. Scroll to the bottom and accept.
Source? I'm really curious to see what they found.
Hell yeah, UTC gang rise up.
Honestly the best case scenario for all involved is the hull shattering and instantly killing them all.
Practically every other outcome is a slow death knowing you’re going to die but can’t do anything about it.
Since I heard about this whole fiasco I'm more and more dumbfounded.
There was this guy, who invented a way to dive for cheap (he listens to the carbon, and if there is a suspicious sound then he quickly comes back to the surface), complaining about the regulations which were holding submarines back. He fired the whistleblower who made reports about the danger of the equipment. He was fired and escorted outside.
Make him a meme, let's call him the "I told you so" guy. Surely he will be invited in TV shows about this whole affair.
The equipment, a game console controller? Seriously? Gaming equipment is simple: It's about 3% return policy. Depends on the brand. The people who swear that game controllers are safe are among the 97% who never had a return. They are the people who answers "mine works" on a forum when someone ask why his controller failed. If your game controller is broken, the service is : we send you a new one under 48 hours.
--> This service policy doesn't work at 3800m under the water, folks! This is not the right equipment. What kind of person bets the life of 4 people on gaming equipment?? We all know why he did it, because he hates regulations and he hates paying a premium on redundant equipment. He is in for the money, nothing else. So let's cut the costs on the hardware, let's not listen to anyone and let's not purchase the product of the engineers who designed equipment specially with these constraints in mind.
From time to time there is always a guy who pops-up and believes that regulations are made by people with too much free time in their hands.
The game controller thing gets meme'd to death, but I don't think people focus on the right thing.
Xbox controllers are also used by the US Navy, among other branches of the military.
These are GOOD pieces of engineering, and they're tested by millions of users under pretty strenuous conditions. However, the controller the Oceangate was using was some shitty-ass third-party controller that you can get for peanuts off Amazon.
THAT, IMO, is the issue that this piece of equipment illustrates. A solid Xbox Series S controller is $60 on Amazon, and you're telling me you had to go for cheaper?
I don't think the fact that the controller was wireless gets highlighted enough. Bluetooth devices have a hard time working above sea level and you're expecting it to work 3800m below the surface. Delusional.
BT devices got problems only when water is in between anetna1 and antena2. It does not matter at what altitude the devices are, just what is inbetween them.
Also, backups: the controller doesn't bother me that much UNLESS they had no redundancies for it failing plus checklists. I.E. controller battery dies, use second controller, use wired controller, use control screen, etc. And backup mechanical linkages for critical stuff. I don't know the details but if they lacked these things, then they are (were) definitely morons.
For what it's worth, in one of the old videos the CEO did, he mentioned that they kept two or three of the controllers on board. I think the stuff about game controllers and RV gear is overblown and almost certainly not what caused the problem. The bigger issue to me is the fact that they picked "exotic" materials for the pressure vessel (which while strong, are more brittle and fail more dramatically than steel), didn't get them properly tested or certified, and if they somehow had been found adrift, put no engineering effort into escape or communication in an emergency.
Though thinking about it, I guess the game controller thing is relevant, at least to the extent it points at a pennywise and pound-foolish operation trying to value-engineer a business to go to the bottom of the god-damn ocean. Carbon fiber and tungsten sound amazing, until you realize that a big part of using them was to create a vessel big enough for 5 that was also small and light enough that it could be toted aboard any ship they could rent, and would then be set free from its launch sled by dudes undoing bungee cords.
The thing is that if they cheap out on one area then you have to think "what else did they skimp on?" Like if they're that careless about what you can see you should be terrified of what you can't.
And it'd be one thing if we were all just laughing at some tech bro fulfilling his wacky dream and using some odd parts, its a totally different conversation now that we know the sub imploded. The guy probably cut every corner possible and if those people with him had said "hey, this sub uses shitty consumer grade parts, I'm out" they would be alive still.
The man had zero respect for the blood those regulations have been written in.
good. hopefully the media can stop pushing this nonsense 24/7. i wonder if the families will pay for the millions of dollars wasted in searching for these selfish idiots? who knowingly signed up for this death trap?
at least emergency services in my area charge idiots for rescues. fuck around in the White mountains and you can end up paying six figures or more for a rescue. which is as it should be. they don't however, charge for legitimate rescues.
This complete and utter lack of compassion is something I'd expect to see on Reddit. How unfortunate this mindset seems to have tagged along in the migration. Show some damn humanity.
The complete and utter lack of understanding as to why people may react in the way the person you're replying to boggles my mind. Are you willfully ignorant of how destructive billionaires can be on society? Are you completely neglecting how negligent the CEO of this diving company was about their own safety?
Instead of wagging your finger from your pedestal, spend some time understanding why so many people share this type of reaction.
Personally, I'm proud of having more empathy and humanity than a billionaire.
lol bro. You don't have to like the rich class to have basic human empathy for other people
I'm not saying you can't have empathy for other people. I'm saying you should probably understand better as to why people have the reaction they do
Agreed, and the fact that the hateful parent comment is still sitting at the top of the thread also makes me concerned for kbin's ranking algorithm.
At the moment it has 28 "upvotes" and 51 "downvotes," which on reddit would have it buried and hidden at the bottom. Here it's remained the top comment since the article was posted.
Possibly because it has three "boosts"? I don't understand the difference between boosts and votes. But this site is going to have to do something about it, because normal people are going to run from this place if this kind of sociopathic content is elevated here.
"good" "selfish idiots"
Such disregard for life is unjustifiable and inexcusable - I don't know what values you aspire to live by, but celebrating death or wishing punitive suffering on anyone is certain to perpetuate harm.
It's tragic that people died regardless of the lives they lead. I have no love for the ultra wealthy, and this event overshadowing the capsized migrant boat highlights our collective hypocrisy, but celebrating death & suffering is a self-destructive and socially regressive action that I hope fewer people do. Instead of directing your ire towards the individuals who died I hope that you and other readers direct that frustration towards the systemic failures those individuals embodied, and I hope you find a way use that anger for constructive action towards a better world.
They signed a waiver, so when the sub went missing, that shoulda been the end of it. Because you can't argue with a waiver.
Liability waiver are not the end all, be all of legal action. If the company was negligent that is not going to be covered in the waiver. There are also other caveats that may be relevant to if the waiver is valid and enforceable. I'd be curious about which jusisdiction's laws apply.
Not only can you absolutely argue with a waiver (and I'm sure the families will), but that's only an agreement between the company and the customer, not the customer and the governmental agencies involved in the rescue.
Crazy. I wanted to check to see if there had been any updates and I was going to check Reddit because I thought I was more likely to find info quickly there. But I decided that I couldn't have seen it on Kbin first if I didn't give Kbin the chance and check it first and here is the exact info I was looking for at the very top of the first page of my Kbin app.
I still can't get my head around being the type of person who would get on that thing.
I still can't believe that James Cameron went to the bottom the Marina Trench in 2012.
At least Deepsea Challenger was properly built and more than up to the task.
James Cameron shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as these clowns.
Makes me wondering what that banging sound was then.
When searchers are desperately looking for any signs of life, any sounds can be mistaken for a clue.
Maybe they had early warning signs that something was wrong with the sub. Maybe it imploded later. Dunno.
Marine Traffic app showed at least a dozen ships clustered above the site until about an hour ago; now there's two government vessels - everyone else has gone home.
I don't need any press conference to tell me they're all dead.
Guillermo Sohnlein said the group may have extended their life support supplies by "relaxing as much as possible."
Ah yes, the sweet relaxation of slow death. Not that they would have had much time to relax anyway, if the debris field is the remains of their vessel.
It would suck if they saw it coming, like slow leaks in the cabin or a crack forming in the view port... they would not have had to worry about it for long but they still may have had time to panic which would be quite shiddy
I'm ngl, I'm kind of morbidly curious what, if any, remains are there when a sub at this depth implodes. Will there even be any bodies that are retrievable?
As sad and morbid it is to think about, there's probably not anything left other than a fine mist disbursed through the ocean.
I'm reminded of the one episode of Mythbusters where they tested an old school dive suit at depth with loss of pressure. Not the exact same situation, but consider they are MUCH deeper than this was. And in that test on the show, their human analogue looked like it got finely blended into a pile of mush inside the suit. The pressures that deep are no joke.
As another comparison, I'm sure someone with actual numbers could compare the PSI at the depth they went missing to what is put through from a hydraulic press and just go watch any video on the hydraulic press YT channel for comparison.
Well, that's less wear and tear on the Guillotines when the revolution comes.
Coast Guard says the debris field was "consistent with a catastrophic implosion of the vessel" and would have been picked up if it had happened after the search was underway.