this post was submitted on 21 Sep 2024
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287
Footage shows NYPD officers firing at man with knife in subway shooting that wounded 4 (apnews.com)
submitted 2 months ago by Stopthatgirl7@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world
51 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Footage of two New York City police officers opening fire at a subway station as they confronted a man holding a knife shows they shot at him as he was standing still, his arms by his side and his back to a train.

In the days since Sunday’s shooting, police officials have repeatedly emphasized that the officers fired after Derell Mickles “charged” at one of them, and when their attempts to deescalate the situation and use Tasers had failed — leaving them with little choice but to resort to deadly force to protect themselves and passengers. 

The footage, uploaded to the NYPD’s YouTube page Friday, offers a different view of the shooting that not only wounded Mickles but also a bystander, who was hit in the head with a stray bullet. Gregory Delpeche, 49, was sent to the hospital in critical condition, where doctors had to open up his skull to reduce brain swelling, according to his family.

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[–] orcrist@lemm.ee 128 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Just in case anyone lives under a rock, this is another great example of how the cops are not there to protect you. They will hurt you, intentionally or accidentally, and they will never apologize or try to make amends for what they've done. They will always blame somebody else.

And if you don't believe me, ask yourself this. When people on the New York subway see someone with a knife next week or next month, will they be happy if the police arrive? Or, will they run away, because the police are there. I think we all know the answer to that question.

[–] themadcodger@kbin.earth 33 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Well it's obviously the bystander's fault for being in the way of stray bullets.

I think we can all sleep soundly knowing a man was almost murdered over less than three bucks.

/s #acab etc

[–] tiefling@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Inb4 a bystander gets sued for damaging police equipment by taking a bullet to the head

[–] themadcodger@kbin.earth 4 points 2 months ago

I hate that that is even plausible in this timeline.

[–] MelodiousFunk@slrpnk.net 64 points 2 months ago

Footage of two New York City police officers ... shot at him as he was standing still, his arms by his side and his back to a train.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 58 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Cops are trained to see every little thing as an immediate threat on their lives.

That's why this happened:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKmnJgXyZpU

Meanwhile, police officer isn't even in the top 25 most dangerous jobs in America.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2023/03/02/most-dangerous-jobs-america-database/11264064002/

Maybe we should start giving guns to roofers.

[–] MelodiousFunk@slrpnk.net 14 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Maybe we should start giving guns to roofers.

They can shoot at the ground and slow their descent.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I feel like we need Randall Munro to weigh in on this. Exactly how much firepower would the roofer need to save themselves from falling off a roof?

[–] Bytemeister@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago (3 children)
[–] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

There's an xkcd for everything

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

That's a jetpack though. I'm talking about landing after falling like a SpaceX rocket or something.

[–] Bytemeister@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Jetpack is just a rocket (or jet, but most of the depicted jetpacks are rockets) that you wear on your back. You'd land the same way the falcon booster lands, by firing the rockets to slow your descent.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Sure, but it would take a different amount of firepower to take off than it would to land.

[–] LordGimp@lemm.ee 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Full auto Barrett should do the trick.

[–] jmr100@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

a launcher for rocket jump

[–] DmMacniel@feddit.org 51 points 2 months ago

It's not even funny anymore how utterly incompetent (and bigoted) the police force in America is.

[–] Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world 32 points 2 months ago (3 children)

A cop would rather shoot and kill a suspect and bystanders than suffer even the slightest of injury. I don't blame the cops for being scared of a potential knife and blasting the guy without a care for anything but your own skin. But don't do that and call yourself a hero.

[–] fine_sandy_bottom@lemmy.federate.cc 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Honestly I think that's a pretty low expectation.

I'm not going to watch the video but killing someone when there is no imminent threat is murder.

[–] atlas@sh.itjust.works 10 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The threat was definitely there, the man was aggressive from the moment they approached him.

Now I definitely don't agree with how they reacted to literally every aspect of this situation, they're lucky more people haven't been hurt from their idiotic decision making. But to call this a non threat situation is pretty dishonest.

[–] aStonedSanta@lemm.ee 2 points 2 months ago

He was a threat but never life threatening I guess is the best way to describe it. The only life threatening action was the police gunfire. Him sprinting at a cop with a knife in his hand is threatening but not life threatening imo. Specially not when he just casually stopped?? Then again adrenaline and all I’m not even sure the cop getting chased knew he had stopped by the time he was firing even though it seems very obvious.

[–] Neon@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Tbf, a knife isn't "the slightest injury" but potentially deadly

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Context is important.

A knife is "potentially deadly" sitting in a knife block if there are people around because someone could grab it out of the knife block and start stabbing.

This guy was not posing a threat.

[–] aStonedSanta@lemm.ee 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I’m not so sure in this situation that I wouldn’t call him a threat. He shrugged off a taser or two?(unsure if they hit their taser darts or whatever) sprinted at an officer with a knife in his hand yelling shoot me if I heard correctly. But shooting at him 9 times is absurd. They shoulda just kept dancing around with him tbh and never drawn their guns only tasers. Or shit find a broom and just use reach he didn’t seem to want to hurt anyone but maybe suicide by cop from the whole sprinting at the cop saying shoot me. Again if I heard correctly.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

His arms were at his side. He was not moving. That makes him not a threat.

[–] aStonedSanta@lemm.ee 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

At which moment in time are you referring? The only time I consider him a threat was when he sprinted at the officer. Edit: I wasn’t clear initially my apologies.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

At the moment he was murdered? What other moment would I be referring to?

[–] aStonedSanta@lemm.ee 1 points 2 months ago

Yeah at that time the threat was his partner. Who shot him 😆

[–] jmr100@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

yeah you'd think they'd at least have better aim

[–] Zedd00@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Talk to anyone that runs a gun range, and they'll tell you that cops have the worst aim. They have a tendency to point in the general direction of their target, then pull the trigger until it goes click.

[–] aStonedSanta@lemm.ee 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The smart ones aren’t on the streets. I imagine detectives probs have decent aim but I know nothing but conjecture and assumptions 😆

[–] nomous@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

I worked alongside law enforcement for awhile and this was my experience as well. The run of the mill patrolman isn't very bright and will spend a long time sitting in a car. The smarter ones rise through the ranks pretty quickly, taking advantage of the huge growth potential in LE.

Most departments offer huge incentives and bonuses to continue your education and advance. It's very military in its structure and by the time you're working homicide or major cases pretty much everyone has a Masters degree or comparable specialized training. They're still bastards but they're definitely not stupid.

[–] collapse_already@lemmy.ml 29 points 2 months ago

"We had to shoot. We left our hand grenades and bazooka at home by mistake. HQ wouldn't authorize the nuclear strike unless he had a gun."

[–] dan@upvote.au 15 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

What a word salad of a headline. Did the officers wound the four that got wounded? Did the man with the knife wound them? Was the man with the knife involved with the shooting at all? Really confusing.

[–] mosiacmango@lemm.ee 35 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Yes. The cops shot 4 people. The man with the knife, two random people on the train, and one of the cops. One of the random people is in the hospital with brain swelling, and may be brain dead.

The cops claimed they had to open fire because the knife wielding man charged them. This video shows he did no such thing when they shot him, he wasn't even waving it around. He turned his head with his hands down on at sides, his back to the train, standing still. That's when two of the cops opened fire on him and a crowded train.

The article that is linked explains what happened.

[–] capital@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The cops claimed they had to open fire because the knife wielding man charged them. This video shows he did no such thing when they shot him, he wasn’t even waving it around.

Let's get one thing clear, he definitely chased a cop with the knife out. Clearly unstable and screamed "shoot" several times during the encounter. I say that to demonstrate his state of mind, not that people who say that should be shot.

The suspect charging the cop is at the linked timestamp: https://youtu.be/-EaAraFPzEo?t=952

[–] mosiacmango@lemm.ee 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Yes, at one point they had a justification to fire, although that was clearly a dangerous action at any point. They did not have a reason to shoot him and the 3 other people when they did.

There needs to be an imminent threat to them or bystanders when using deadly force. He was an immediate threat to neither at the time. Their recklessness has effectively ended one innocent persons life, and injured several other people.

[–] brbposting@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

at one point

Stopwatch estimate - that one point was at most 2.75 seconds before the first shot was fired.

Guns (violent use thereof)/violence suck, feel like you would need a lifetime of training to ignore the adrenaline that had built three seconds earlier and be able to say to yourself “OK, I was being chased with a knife just now but upon turning my head I was no longer being chased so back to verbal negotiations“.

[not defending anybody but-]

If I studied for a quiz with the question:

“what’s gonna happen if you chase a cop with a knife but then stop chasing him?“

…and the study material were copies of every police training manual in the world… and every single training manual said:

”you will lose your job and go to jail if you shoot guys with knives if they stop chasing you“

…I would answer the question “you’re gonna get shot” :)

Poor bystanders :(

[–] mosiacmango@lemm.ee 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I am enjoying the heavy peppering of "not defending the cops, but" every few sentences as you defend them, but overall these cops let adrenaline override good sense and what I expect is at least some training to shoot wildly at a train car full of people.

All to "stop" a man who was not actively working to injury them or others. Their lack of professionalism and reliance on dumping lead into a crowded train has left an innocent man now effectively dead.

No amount of "poor bystanders, but with emoji sad face" will make their actions okay. A hearty "thoughts and prayers" isn't enough here.

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[–] pyre@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

it says shooting that wounded 4 people. the guy had a knife. unless you know how to shoot with a knife, it's obvious that the cops wounded them.

[–] dan@upvote.au 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It's ambiguous - is the "subway shooting" referring to the police shooting, or were the police responding to a separate shooting, and someone involved in that shooting also had a knife?

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

fair enough, but at this point you're not cooperating. if the shooting was separate they would have mentioned it: ... firing at man with knife while responding to shooting...

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 14 points 2 months ago (3 children)

So have they actually shown that he had a knife yet or not?

[–] Cadeillac@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

From what I've gathered, they stated an unidentified man left the crime scene with the knife. They showed a still from "body cam footage" of a hand holding a knife, but someone said the clothes didn't match up

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[–] Bluefalcon@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 2 months ago
  • The guy was spotted with the knife and walked on a train with no more than two officers engage him.
  • They used the taser and it failed.
  • He walks out and they immediately chase and pull guns.
  • He stops and is standing 5-7 ft away with cops on both sides.
  • At least two officers stand off with him.

For all the money they spent, why was it only two officers? I thought it would fix everything? Instead another shooting with innocent people being affected.

https://www.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/news/773-22/mayor-adams-governor-hochul-major-actions-keep-subways-safe-address-transit

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