this post was submitted on 05 Nov 2024
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[–] Vespair@lemm.ee 59 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

And frankly, even if you're literally portioning rations for the revolution you plan to start tomorrow, the idea of not taking the absolutely minute amount of time, in the grand scheme of things, that it takes to potentially positively affect change is still absurd. If this really was the revolution, then the people's army couldn't afford to leave strategic advantages like that on the table.

Somebody said something to this effect once: Voting isn't about picking which hero is going to save us; it's about picking the kind of villain we have to fight against.

I just don't even understand how this is still a conversation. It's literally not an either/or dichotomy here. All of those things you want to do to prepare for the revolution or whatever? You can still do all of them and vote. You lose absolutely nothing by voting. Zero. It's just such a batshit mentality from the very onset.

[–] jj4211@lemmy.world 21 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

After really trying to engage sincerely with a couple of these folks online the only conclusion I can reach is that they are trying to suppress the vote under the guise of being extremist left. Like you say, there's zero rational strategy to not using or tanking your vote, and only can be defended if you claim both candidates are the same. They persist in saying that, with trash like "Revolution is necessary, electoralism cannot work." to rationalize not voting toward the lesser of two evils.

[–] Dragonstaff@leminal.space 7 points 2 weeks ago

"Anarchists against electoralism" is a tiny number of people the Dems like to scapegoat. The vast majority of voters don't even know Anarchists exist.

Unfortunately, most people are checked out of "politics". I wish Democrats were more focused on reaching out and getting people excited to vote, rather than the constant complaints about people to the left of you.

[–] Vespair@lemm.ee 7 points 2 weeks ago

Exactly this. I think there are only two people you hear saying this: the overtly bad actors trying to suppress votes or the few extremely gullible idiots who stupidly get wrapped up in the lies of former. Thankfully I think it's usually clear before long which of the two you're talking to and only one of them is worth your time, and they're the rarer of them.

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

All of those things you want to do to prepare for the revolution or whatever? You can still do all of them and vote.

I mean, a few of the things I want to do to prepare for a revolution are explicitly illegal, and I don't have enough commas in my bank account to get away with treason.

[–] Vespair@lemm.ee 6 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

And this has any relevancy on voting.... How? Either you're going to the do the illegal things, which can be done on any day other than Nov 5 or you aren't going to the do the illegal things and you can still vote on Nov 5.

I don't give a shit about your personal revolutionary savior cosplaying fantasy; it is entirely non-sequitur to the topic of how voting is still the reasonable choice even for the revolutionarily-motivated.

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

I'm not going to vote on November 5th.

Because I mailed my ballot on October 23rd.

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[–] kibiz0r@midwest.social 42 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Canonical Strawman Leftist™ describing their utopia: “Everyone votes on everything, and we engage in thoughtful discussion to persuade our neighbors to make good choices with their votes.”

Same leftist describing today: “Voting is pointless, and it’s impossible to change anyone’s mind.”

[–] Dragonstaff@leminal.space 5 points 2 weeks ago

It's nice of you to admit you're arguing against a straw man.

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[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 14 points 2 weeks ago

I dislike leftist Seinfeld, even if he'd hate it.

[–] wpb@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah, punch left some more. Seems to work really well for you guys.

[–] CptEnder@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago

LMFAO OP just tearing through the haters in the comments

[–] Vailliant@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Yeah lets blame the voters, not the candidates for not exciting the voter base with actual solutions for issues

[–] OptiMoose@lemmy.cafe 20 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

If the threat of your neighbors, everyone in Gaza and the West Bank and Lebanon and in Taiwan and Ukraine being killed while worsening the climate crisis and plunging over 300 million into fascism isn't "exciting" to voters, then those voters are sociopaths.

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[–] capital@lemmy.world 10 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (8 children)

I’d have taken “not making abortion illegal nation wide” but I guess even that was too little for many.

I honestly think people just don’t realize how much worse it can get. We all get to see together now.

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[–] infinite_ass@leminal.space 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

In other words.

You can stuff their heads with memes and talking-points all day, get them shouting the party slogans in chorus.

But you can't give them the initiative to actually do something.

(Or to think for themselves for that matter. It rather contradicts the whole stuffed-head thing)

[–] chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

The burden of proof is on revolutionaries. Always!

You not only need to show that your radically new society is a genuine improvement (and won’t collapse into a brutal dictatorship) but also that it’s enough of an improvement to be worth the millions of lives that would be lost during the revolution! Furthermore, you need to show that the new society you propose can accommodate people whose ideology is different from your own.

Assuming that humans will all think and behave the same way has never worked throughout human history. Liberal democracy (and to a lesser extent enlightened monarchy) has been the only time period to accommodate diverse opinions, scientific and economic flourishing, and strong protections for individual liberty (and sexuality) simultaneously with a large population. All of the other systems were either very small (and so relied on the close bonds of kinship and inter-familial relationships) or dominated by brutal despots.

Thus, as much as we hate our current system for its many flaws, it’s so much better than everything that has gone before that the bar has been set very high.

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