What Microsoft has been saying about Xbox lately strongly implies that this is a Windows handheld designed to solve software and user experience problems with using current Windows handhelds. And signs are pointing toward the next Xbox console coming sooner than the next PlayStation and essentially being a PC running a console version of Windows. Some speculation on my part, but I'm not the only one coming to those conclusions.

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[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 101 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Microsoft following the same pattern.

There is a need in the market they are aware of, but don't care
Someone else makes a huge splash by doing a great job
Microsoft gets butthurt that someone else is making profit
They take way too long coming up with a rival
Microsoft hires thousands of engineers to work on the product
The rival is way too late to market, and everyone has already chosen the cool product
Microsoft quietly lays people off and kills off the product

[–] passepartout@feddit.org 41 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

You forgot

MS buys all the competition
MS kills said companies they bought before so everyone has to use their half assed shit product

[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world 25 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

While true, I don't see Valve selling out to Microsoft.

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 30 points 3 weeks ago

Fun fact, Gabe left Microsoft to found Valve. Pretty sure a few other early Valve employees were also from Microsoft.

[–] PunchingWood@lemmy.world 12 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Never say never.

Who knows what happens when someone else takes the helm at Valve, might not be too long either. Lots of companies see a massive shift in company policies once a new CEO takes over. Hopefully it'll be someone that upholds the same integrity as Gabe.

[–] passepartout@feddit.org 13 points 3 weeks ago

I hope so as well, as Valve is one of the few companies left these days not consisting of shareholder imbeciles.

[–] ms_lane@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

That doesn't really happen though what happens is-

MS buys one of the biggest older players, then changes whatever direction they were going in, to their 'new hotness'
MS kills the company they bought after being way too late to market, and everyone has already chosen the cool product

[–] dan1101@lemm.ee 15 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Too expensive and too late mostly.

[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 10 points 3 weeks ago

The surface is one of my go-to examples of Microsoft's ineptitude. The surface is honestly an amazing tablet. It works very well, great battery life, and you can either use a standard tablet mode or it as a full Windows machine. For businesses too it was a slam-dunk, where since it's Windows it already interfaces with most IT systems out of the box, no special setup or store integrations or Apple stuff, it'd work with Microsoft AD. Unfortunately it followed the pattern.

They gave up on tablets before fully vetting the market
Apple lands the iPad, and it takes off, is groundbreaking
Microsoft got butthurt that Apple made profit on a thing they gave up on
They take years coming up with the Surface, in the meantime every 3rd party came out with an Android one that was slow and choppy so the people have all decided iPad was the winner
Microsoft hired thousands of engineers and pivoted the entire world to touch, forcing Windows 8 down everyone's throats, making the public hate it
Surface finally lands, but everyone already hates the interface, and anyone who wants a tablet already has one
Microsoft quietly lays off everyone. Surface is still around, but on life support.

[–] lychee@lemmy.blahaj.zone 25 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

20 minute battery life incoming, also msft account required

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 13 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Also it'll be running windows, so it'll be rife with vulnerabilities and need constant security fixes.

[–] woelkchen@lemmy.world 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Also it’ll be running windows

Xbox's Windows is not the same as PC Windows.

[–] lychee@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

not sure what you mean

[–] woelkchen@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

Xbox is locked down and barely has any security issues on user hardware.

[–] caut_R@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago

Force people to use the MS store to complete the laughing stock

[–] sundrei@lemmy.sdf.org 13 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

So, Microsoft -- how's Windows for ARM coming?

[–] woelkchen@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

So, Microsoft – how’s Windows for ARM coming?

Phil Spencer doesn't know his employer makes ARM computers. Not even Microsoft Solitaire Collection has a native ARM port.

[–] ms_lane@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

It technically does, but you won't be able to run the Windows Phone 8 app on modern Windows ARM.

[–] icecreamtaco@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

All the Solitaire devs seem to care about these days is money and enshittification. Spending time on architecture ports is the last thing I’d expect from them

[–] woelkchen@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

Not a single Microsoft game runs natively an Windows ARM.

[–] Concave1142@lemmy.world 13 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

Maybe they should focus on it quicker. Surely it cannot be that difficult to build a handheld based on how quickly Steam Deck competition hit the market within, what, a year of the Steam Deck release?

(I'm lazy and did not read the article, only the headline.)

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 16 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

That few years is going toward making Windows less of a hindrance on handhelds and likely not so much into the hardware itself.

[–] Artyom@lemm.ee 4 points 3 weeks ago

It'll [attempt] to make Windows less of a hinderance on THEIR handheld. If all these other Windows-based devices are now rivals, why let them benefit from hard work when you can force them out?

[–] Drathro@dormi.zone 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

If they released one NOW they'd probably be shooting themselves in the foot. At best they'd get mid-generational performance improvements whereas likely in the next year or two Valve is probably going to drop a true SteamDeck 2 with significant improvements. All speculation at this point, but if you're a bean counter at Microsoft, speculation is like 90% of your job. Unless they abandon the standard console release cycle and shoot for faster iteration, they'll want to come out absolutely swinging to compete.

[–] kalr@meinreddit.com 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Not really. PS6 parts have already been selected and the chipset entered production in 2022.

[–] Drathro@dormi.zone 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Sure, but we're talking about a handheld. Yes, performance is improving generation over generation, but in the handheld space power usage and heat dissipation are equally important. If you've been keeping up with recent innovations, you'll see that generally we are making more powerful parts, but they're getting much more power hungry for every little percent of improvement they bring in raw horsepower. So far it doesn't look like you could even get Xbox series S performance in a handheld yet. At least not at a reasonably portable size, cost, or battery life. You could get a little better than PS4 pro performance in a handheld at present, based on what I've seen. Which is not a full generational leap over what's out there.

[–] kalr@meinreddit.com 2 points 3 weeks ago

I think they'll be fine. They don't need to be the most powerful. Steam Deck is weaker than Rog Ally but remains the more popular option due to a better user experience and the Switch was significantly underpowered compared to the competition but remains a popular option to other things they bring to the table.

Microsoft won't push for an expensive handheld so anything they bring out would likely be weaker than the top end of the market. It really comes down to what other offerings they bring.

[–] bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

With any luck they actually want to bring true innovations to either Windows or Xbox. Getting support for gyros, accelerometers, back buttons or touchpads into Xinput would even benefit gaming on Linux since most games seem to default to that as a lowest common denominator.

[–] RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I would prefer if gyros and accelerometers die off in controllers for gaming. Tilting and shaking the controller is not something I have ever enjoyed, except when the controller is a light gun for a game like Time Crisis or Silent Hill The Arcade.

[–] bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de 10 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Then you have never used it for aiming assistance. Still not as good as a mouse but it finally comes close.

The bad rep for movement controls comes from too many poor implementations. As long as it is subtle and meaningful it's awesome.

[–] RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world -1 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

I have used it. Played Metroid Prime 3, which is probably the best implementation of motion controls by far in any game.

I still would prefer using a normal controller with no motion controls. I would really prefer a trackball on a controller, but that likely won't happen.

[–] bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de 5 points 3 weeks ago

Aiming in MP3 is done through the IR pointer. I loved that game. It has the best FPS controls on the Wii. But it has absolutely nothing to do with gyro aiming.

With gyro aiming you do the large movements traditionally with the right joystick and only make micro adjustments with very small natural tilting of the controller. I thought I wasn't using it until I deactivated it. It has nothing to do with picking up the controller and pointing it at the screen. It has nothing to do with making any gestures. An outside observer might not even notice that you're using it.

[–] TachyonTele@lemm.ee 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

The Wii controllers are no where near what gyro controllers have today. It's not motion control, it's an assist.

[–] Defaced@lemmy.world 12 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Knee jerk reaction based on OEM feedback for a built in handheld interface for the OEM handhelds like the rog ally. Steam deck clearly caused a disruption in the market that Microsoft simply cannot stop. It'll probably have alps joysticks that drift, they'll slap an over powered AMD apu in it with a shit battery that it'll chew through in an hour like every other handheld PC. Valve hit the sweet spot with the deck, and there's no real reason to upgrade it, sure you have more powerful apu's but battery tech hasn't caught up yet and the only way to counteract it is slap a bigger battery on the device. At that point what's the point of putting a power hungry apu in a handheld?

[–] JusticeForPorygon@lemmy.world 9 points 2 weeks ago

Cannot wait to not purchase it.

[–] MidsizedSedan@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Would there even be a demand for a dedicated handheld console? PC has "issues" because of the set up, while console is easy because its already built.

The steam deck is already built, + it has desktop mode + more games than xbox and playstation combined?

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

In all likelihood, this would be a handheld PC that solves the problems that Windows has in that space.

[–] Tronn4@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

Yeah right

[–] Noite_Etion@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Games include Halo 1, Halo 2 and Halo 3. Enjoy the thrill of purchasing them all over again!

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

That's Nintendo's MO, not Microsoft's.

[–] Noite_Etion@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Every xbox has a version of Halo on it, why do you think this one would be different?

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

They haven't really had a history of making you purchase them again. If you've got them now, you'll still be playing the copies you already bought.

[–] Noite_Etion@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Halo has been released on Xbox, Windows, macOS, Xbox 360, Windows Phone, iOS, Xbox One, Arcade, Xbox Series X|S. Then there is the Master Chief Collection which resold the series all over again.

Microsoft will happily sell you the same thing over and over and over. But luckily for them they have fanboys like you ready to defend the multibillion dollar corporation from jokes like mine.

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Those are supported platforms, yes. Many of them are redundant because the same license gives to access to the game on multiple platforms. I'm not defending them; your joke didn't land because they don't typically make you buy the same games over again. I'm a Linux fanboy and don't own a Series X; I have no reason to defend Microsoft. Just make better jokes next time.

[–] Noite_Etion@lemmy.world -2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Just make better jokes next time.

Said the fanboy.

Many of them are redundant because the same license gives access to the game on multiple platforms.

Oh so I have a free copy of Halo 1 or 2 on other platforms because I bought it back on the original Xbox... No, if I want to play it on modern platforms I'll have to buy it again?

What about Halo 3 on the 360, do I get a free copy of it everywhere else... Again no... Shit.

I'm a Linux fanboy and don't own a Series X.

Yet you immediately downvote all my comments like that means anything, and get wrapped up defending Microsoft from some random jokes online.

they don't typically make you buy the same games over again.

I love the non-conformational language you use here "they don't typically make you do something". You cannot even state plainly that they don't re-sell their shit over and over because even you know it's not true.

I look forward to your immediate downvote and reply.

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

There seem to be a lot of people here who haven't gotten the memo that future Xboxes are likely to just be disguised Windows PCs, because they're mostly interested in Game Pass and know they can't compete otherwise. On an open platform, they couldn't stop you from continuing to play your old games. They really don't care about you re-purchasing their old games because they want you to rent a library. That's why your joke was bad.

[–] Noite_Etion@lemmy.world -1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Way to ignore my entire comment lol. But thanks for proving my point that you're a hurt fanboy by downvoting and quickly replying.

They really don't care about you re-purchasing their old games because they want you to rent a library.

You get that's worse right? You own nothing and now if you want to replay their old games you have to rent them again and again. It's just another subscription... Yay Game Pass. Companies don't decide to make less money just to give their customers more value, they are a business not a charity.

Besides once Microsoft has a stranglehold on the gaming market (If they ever get it) they will use the position of power to make as much money as possible. Like they did with operating systems or office suites (365). They even tried to buy out Nintendo recently, do you think they did that because they don't want to re-sell their titles again? Why else try and build monopolies?

There seem to be a lot of people here who haven't gotten the memo that future Xboxes are likely to just be disguised Windows PCs

What do you think consoles are? They are just a pc with proprietary software and hardware. Even a PS2 can run linux.

On an open platform, they couldn't stop you from continuing to play your old games.

Yeah killing old servers would never happen.

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I don't think I ever pitched a subscription as being better than ownership, just that your joke is divorced from the reality of the situation and the way Microsoft has operated for over a decade, and that's why the joke didn't land. Microsoft won't get a stranglehold on the market, despite their best efforts.

What do you think consoles are? They are just a pc with proprietary software and hardware.

You are missing the distinction by several miles. A short list includes the lack of cert, the availability of competitors on the same platform, and backward compatibility whether they like it or not. If the value proposition is as poor as you expect it to be, then the launch of a portable Xbox will hardly be noticed next to the Steam Deck, but the more likely scenario is that it's basically a Steam Deck that plays nicer with Game Pass and anti cheat technologies because it's actually Windows under the hood. You've demonstrated a large lack of understanding about what's changed between 6th gen consoles and today, but the short explanation is that I don't see a reason to expect Microsoft to charge you for Halo again on this new platform, because it would be marketing suicide among plenty of other reasons.

[–] Noite_Etion@lemmy.world -1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I don't think I ever pitched a subscription as being better than ownership, just that your joke is divorced from the reality of the situation and the way Microsoft has operated for over a decade.

How is it divorced? You're still spending money for the same things over and over again. Your argument is purely semantics" you're not purchasing, you're renting!" Like there is a difference... You are still giving Microsoft money to play old games.

If I changed my original comment to read 'spending money' instead of 'purchasing' would that make you feel better? Because this seems to be your only problem with it.

You are missing the distinction by several miles. A short list includes the lack of cert, the availability of competitors on the same platform, and backward compatibility whether they like it or not. If the value proposition is as poor as you expect it to be, then the launch of a portable Xbox will hardly be noticed next to the Steam Deck, but the more likely scenario is that it's basically a Steam Deck that plays nicer with Game Pass and anti cheat technologies because it's actually Windows under the hood. You've demonstrated a large lack of understanding about what's changed between 6th gen consoles and today, but the short explanation is that I don't see a reason to expect Microsoft to charge you for Halo again on this new platform, because it would be marketing suicide among plenty of other reasons.

Originally you brought this up to reinforce the idea that Microsoft consoles are transitioning to a PC with an xbox paint job. Which is what all consoles essentially are, but I got what you were trying to say that it's a shared environment with a PC, which is somewhat relevant to the conversation... Kinda.

But now you are bringing up certificates, backwards compatibility, steam decks, anti cheat and other generations of consoles.

This entire section of your comment has nothing to do with my joke or the discussion so far, it's a waste of time and nothing but a diversion. Can you get back to what we are actually talking about? I get it Microsoft rents not sells... You see that I get it right?