this post was submitted on 17 Dec 2024
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[–] Mr_Fish@lemmy.world 29 points 1 day ago (4 children)

OK, what else do you suggest? Not voting? That just speeds the process up. Voting for the small but much better option? In a FPTP voting system (like the American one that I assume you're talking about), the spoiler effect means that's as good as not voting.

This is my issue with the leftist community in general, and especially the ml group. Because of idealism, they seem to ask for something that doesn't exist and not accept anything else.

[–] Prunebutt@slrpnk.net 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] Mr_Fish@lemmy.world 14 points 1 day ago (2 children)

As good as that video is, he ignores the strength elections have as damage control. Yes, large positive change needs the sort of efforts he's describing, but ignoring voting means a bad government will have far more opportunity to undo progress.

Really, the biggest takeaway from that video is that there are more tools than simply voting and protesting, which I don't think anyone is disagreeing with.

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[–] macattack@lemmy.world 16 points 1 day ago (5 children)

More like the Overton Window at work actually.

Biden will likely end up as one of the top 5 most progressive presidents ever. Society expects more from Democrats than they would've previously. There's nothing wrong w/ that, but the argument being presented seems misguided and like both sides nihilism.

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[–] kitnaht@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

Because yes, "the left" never changes anything, and only goes further right.

(hint: That's not how this works)

Over the decades we've made massive strides in equal rights for various marginalized groups. But sometimes the dance takes a step backwards before moving forward again.

[–] jerakor@startrek.website 11 points 1 day ago

In an American vacuum I could see where you are coming from. In comparison with literally the entire rest of the world, it is clearly a flawed standpoint.

The American Democratic party is the oldest standing political party in the entire world. It last changed it's political stances in the 1960's and not because they wanted to, but because they needed to respond to the Republicans flipping the entire south in their favor.

Other countries have real leftist parties that actually get government members elected.

[–] Prunebutt@slrpnk.net 16 points 1 day ago

Homie, the Democraes right now are pretty much as much on the political right as the republicans were in the 90s.

Smugly claiming "that's not how this works" isn't as good a point as you think it is.

[–] sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 day ago

Us commies weren't always "far" left.

[–] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 1 points 21 hours ago

With only manufactured circumstance tomfuel completely arbitrary result.

Wow.

Stay in school, kids.

[–] kittehx@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 day ago (2 children)

do you mean of not voting for them?

people don't vote, democrats lose, they think it's because they're too far left and move further to the right. meanwhile republican victories embolden them to push even harder into fascism

[–] jerakor@startrek.website 20 points 1 day ago

I vote for them, they move right. I don't vote for them, and vote third party, they move right. I join their party and vote in their primary's for progressive candidates, they move right.

It's almost like a bunch of really old, well off, lifetime establishment government folks just actually want to be conservative authoritarians. At BEST they are stuck in a mindset of 1969's ideas of what progressive politics are because that is when they became politicians.

[–] lugal@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I'm not an American but I would argue that Biden's resignation was in part due to people threatening to not vote. This wasn't a move to the left but organized threats of not voting can make a difference.

Personally, I would vote for the lesser evil unless there was some kind of organized movement. Where I live, we have more than 2 evils to choose from and I choose the smallest of them.

[–] jerakor@startrek.website 14 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Biden was incapable of clearly communicating verbally for 2 hours straight in a debate. I'd argue that Biden stayed in as long as he did to enable them to feel empowered to force another Kamala on us rather than having to deal with a Warren, Sanders or even a Buttigieg winning the Primary. Kamala was 6th in line in the Primary when she dropped out in 2020.

[–] lugal@sopuli.xyz 6 points 1 day ago
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