I try not to be an asshole.
The problem is I am direct and do not sugar coat things. I treat others how I would like to be treated which can be seen as rude. I make an effort to not be that way but it ends up the same.
A casual community for people with ADHD
Values:
Acceptance, Openness, Understanding, Equality, Reciprocity.
Rules:
Encouraged:
Relevant Lemmy communities:
lemmy.world/c/adhd will happily promote other ND communities as long as said communities demonstrate that they share our values.
I try not to be an asshole.
The problem is I am direct and do not sugar coat things. I treat others how I would like to be treated which can be seen as rude. I make an effort to not be that way but it ends up the same.
FYI "not sugarcoating things" is the asshole's mantra for saying anything they want with callous disregard to how its received. Based on displayed attitude in your comment, I sincerely doubt you are as kind as you think.
I'm Autistic which means I tend to miss a lot of social context. It isn't a intentional behavior and I work pretty hard to think though if something might be offensive to someone. I don't like to upset or annoy others it is really bothers me if I upset someone. Most of the time I end up over thinking social interactions which leads me to just sit quietly and avoid talking.
I think this overlaps with neurotical v neurodivergent, but also "ask vs guess culture" can be a source of conflict
To an extent ya. You need to take responsibility for yourself. But also if I interrupt someone constantly that's not bc I want to
If I had a nickel for every time someone says "this person's being a huge jerk to me but I think they might be neurodivergent"
Then I would have zero cents
Yeah, but how many nickels would you have?
As it turns out, also zero.
Yeah I have two childhood friends that are brothers. Their other brother is very autistic. When we were kids a lot of people didn't understand autism enough to get that while yes, his autism did affect the way in which he was a tremendous asshole, it didn't cause it. He happened to have a shit personality and disability level autism
Yeah I've got plenty of issues but I manage to not be a dick, kinda feels like those are separate categories as far as the whole mental space goes.
It's exactly why I do not present any of the mental psychological isms my therapist gave me to other people. I've seen loads of folks who pretty much brag about these things—using them as excuses to be shitty or negligent people with no attempt at learning or practicing social skills. I run like the wind anytime I hear someone brag or lament (usually just a backdoor brag) that they are "empathic" or "highly sensitive." I'm very cautious around people who bring up their "ADHD," "anxiety disorder" or "autism"—especially if they do it regularly, publicly (on social media), or very early upon meeting them. And don't get me started about personality disorders. I know people who are legitimately trying their best with all these things, but the genuinely responsible and aware folks seem to rarely wear those as kind of strange badges of identity.
A business is not obligated to tear out every stairway to make a ramp because some of its users require a wheel chair. In the same vein, not every social interaction where a person who is neurodivergent (diagnosed or not) hurts the feelings of another person is necessarily them being an asshole. Another commenter said something about how intent matters. They're right. It does.
However it matters for both parties. It's situational and it's important to remember that a lot of social interactions involve misunderstandings because there is a lack of communication from both sides and a set of different expectations on both sides.
I don't necessarily think it's fair to view every social interaction through the light of who is the injured party. We don't do that to people with physical conditions. You wouldn't accuse a person in a wheel chair of being an asshole for having an expectation of accessibility. But that's because society as a whole has come to an understanding (by force) that accessibility for these physical conditions is important.
I don't think society has come to that realization about ND people, nor do I think that the average person looks at ND behaviors and adapts to them in a meaningful way.
So when people have an expectation based on Neurotypical behavior and a ND person doesn't meet that expectation, do they recalibrate at all to temper the expectations?
One of the commenters here gave an example about working with a ND person and the response the rest of their co-workers had to another person calling them out for it in a fit of anger. The thing is, it should not have gotten to that point. And it's not just because others should have been setting good boundaries in a healthy way about that behavior. It's also because they should have been tempering their expectations and not overcompensating for that ND person in an unhealthy way.
Part of the problems we're seeing between NT's and ND's have a lot to do with communication and an inability to compromise or at the very least try to find resolution in healthy ways.
The thing about the neuros is most of the time they don't know they're being assholes. The actual assholes do, and don't care. If you explain to a neuro they are being asshole they will almost always try to change
Everyone is an amateur psychologist now
Preach
It's so hard to tell sometimes. Thinking of a bipolar chap I knew back when. Decent hang most of the time, but really thoughtless and possessive at other times.
I still think he was mostly a jerk. Mostly.
I had a friend that had a traumatic brain injury and almost lost his leg from an explosion in Iraq. They guy was a loose cannon, so I tried making sure he didn't do things that were to stupid. He would often run dilemmas by me, and I would talk it out so that he could make healthy choices. I could tell that he kind of looked up to me sometimes. I would hang out with him, give him regular guidance, paint a healthy path for him...but that was pointless. I was too powerless to help this guy. He just wanted to be stupid, drive drunk, run red lights, have ton's of one-night stands, get into bar fights, hustle money, do drugs, hangout with the wrong crowd, etc. I had to cut him off because he was trying to drag me down into that scene. One time in the middle of the day, I'm riding shotgun with this guy. Everything seems fine. Some guy cuts us off. He gets pissed and pulls out a pistol from the center console to show the guy that cut us off. I'm in the middle of the altercation begging for him to just move on. Luckily, the other guy backed down. The last time I hung out with him, he shows up at my house unannounced and says we're going out to have fun. My girlfriend gives me the approval. I get in the car with him, and he starts driving to I really don't know where. A light up ahead turns red, and about 3 seconds into it, we run it without stopping despite my warnings. I then realize this guy had been drinking. I can't remember how, but I either pulled an Irish goodbye or had my girlfriend pick me up. I never hung out with him again.
Years later, I heard he got married, bought a huge house in a fancy neighborhood, and had five kids. A few years after me drifting away from that entire social circle, a joint friend tells me they heard he was in a halfway house/rehab facility after beating his wife. Some people just can't function right even with supervision. It was a hard lesson. All things considered, I still feel bad for the guy. I believe he was a good guy deep inside, but needed more supervision than what I could provide as a friend. I hope he recovers for everyone's sake.
What he really needed was for his country to stop ignoring the true cost of sending troops into dangerous situations and for us to support him properly.
If we as Americans can’t take care of our soldiers once they’ve come home, then we can’t afford to be the world police. I’m thoroughly disgusted and ashamed of my government for allowing this situation to happen.
You are a good person for trying to help him, but realistically he needs constant support from professionals.
I agree with you entirely. Thank you.
Edit: While we're on the subject, I'm going to voice an opinion. I think that if a person goes into literal combat, that person is now a permanent responsibility of the federal government and is guaranteed a decent life for eternity. Why? Because that person risked literally everything on behalf of everyone else. They risked having a family, living a normal life, mental health, permanent disfigurement, physical ability, and even actual existence. Many of those that went to war never made it back. The ones that did make it back are just like the ones that died, except they were the lucky ones because war doesn't discriminate based on anything, just sheer luck. Those that survived should be guaranteed a decent life regardless of anything else. Mfing period.
What if they were jerks before joining the military? Stop recruiting jerks. What if they can work but don't want to? That's their choice. They volunteered for a position that provides an extremely young retirement age if they survive it. If that seems like an great deal, then sign up for it too. Maybe someone can support this person that clearly has a foundational value of sacrifice and service to their country to the point that they will eagerly sacrifice their life if asked to do so and help them navigate the system so that they can continue contributing how they would like in a manner that provides them fulfillment while also adds the community. What if they merely did it for the benefits of having a guaranteed decent life? Then it seems to have worked out for them. The ones that it didn't workout for are dead. The assumed reason for their sacrifice is irrelevant because the actual concrete facts are that they did it. Someone had to do it based on our geopolitical situation. If we are a democracy, then we chose to send our own countrymen to war. Thus, it is everyone's responsibility.
These aren't criminals that need rehabilitation. These aren't lazy parasites that are trying to get by off of everyone else's labor and need to be forced to work by the fear of homelessness and ostracization. These are people that voluntarily agreed to take the toll of war for everyone else because the country went to war and everyone received the benefits. Veterans experience the damage 24/7 for eternity. They will never have what civilians have. So, the rest of us can help with that load by supporting them however needed. At the end of the day, we all get to go home without a care in the world for war. They can never escape it because it's in them.
.
War. War. War. It's all war. So what if nothing.
My exfriend that was a complete mess? He needs to be supervised and checked in on often. Give him a case worker that talks to him on a regular basis. Maybe they have lunch together once a week or whatever. The case worker has a cell phone and is on call in case my exfriend needs to speak with someone before doing anything stupid. If my exfriend starts dating someone again, the case worker meets with that person and they stay in contact as well. Ensure that they know what they are getting into and ensure safety. And like you said, if the government and citizenry doesn't want to do that, then they should stop sending people to war. If they think it's a great deal and want those benefits (compensation) for themselves, they can volunteer go to war. I say this as someone that is extremely anti-war, in part, because of what it does to the combatants and their families. Want to see it for yourself? Volunteer at an event for disabled veterans. Look at their faces. Look at their behaviors. Look at their friends & family. Feel the vibe.
How is this even a topic of discussion? How is this not evident? I don't understand how we are having these discussions. The discussions should be how can we improve their lives. WTF. I need a break. I'm too heated rn. I may have gone overboard, so I might be back to tone it down later if I think it's appropriate. Sorry.
One more post for this thread and then protecting my energy. Topic of great passion, interest and survival for me.
You are not an asshole for protecting your energy from abusive behavior.
The following must not be confused with abusive/asshole behavior:
https://purrfurnax.tumblr.com/post/750391775364104192
Social Ostracization and Bannishment should be a last resort only.
We can do better with communal moderation and conflict resolution.
I reccomend the youtube channel AnRel to address some of the greater nuances
Also, this playlist is something i return to every so often: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaOxDnLZqNcmxxkuxTVxYnhrYEOeoTRjP
Also You will always be a bad person in someone’s eyes, it’s unavoidable. Trick is to make this number small enough to still be accepted in social groups so you can attain the holy triad of Family, House, Health.
In other words - Get rid of witnesses