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Getting up to speed with Gundam (lemmy.world)
submitted 3 days ago by maplebar@lemmy.world to c/anime@ani.social
17 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

As a big fan of the Gainax and Khara teams, I'm looking forward to checking out the new Gundam Gquuuuuux. And so, in preparation I've decided to watch some other Gundam stuff, starting with Mobile Suit Gundam (0079) which I've just finished.

So my question for the fediverse today is: having just watched the original MSG '79, what do you recommend I check out next?

Should I just go chronologically? Jump between the "best" ones? Get a sample of series from the different timelines/continuities? What do you all think?

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[–] MelodiousFunk@slrpnk.net 7 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (3 children)

First of all, welcome! Second, you have activated my special interest, so I'll put the tl;dr at the top:

Generally, I recommend to watch in release order the first time through. Try to get through the core UC (First/Zeta/ZZ/Char's Counterattack) before tackling alternate universes. It sets up the backdrop from which everything else is built off of. Not required, just the recommendation of a fanboy.

In more detail:

How much did you enjoy 0079/First Gundam? If it was better than "eh," I highly suggest following up with Zeta Gundam. If you have your doubts, feel free to jump down to Alternate Universes.

Universal CenturyThe core of Universal Century is First Gundam, Zeta, Double Zeta, and Char's Counterattack (feature film). I recommend watching these before delving into any OVAs. Zeta is the sequel to 1st, ZZ is the direct sequel to Z, and CCA is the end of the arc. All of the UC stuff that came after is either far future, or retconned.

ZZ is contentious because it's a huge tonal shift from Z despite it picking up hours after Z ends. It also suffers from (reportedly) having some characters in the back half switched around due to CCA getting the green light for production. Some say skip it. I think it's worth sitting through the first 12ish episodes to get to the meat. YMMV.

Sticking with production order, next up are UC OVAs 0080 and 0083, along with F91 (feature film). 0083 in particular I very much suggest waiting until at least you've seen Z. It's its own contained story, but there's little bits at the end that lose a lot of impact if you haven't seen Z for context.

F91 was originally supposed to be a series that instead got adapted into a movie. It shows. It sits in an odd spot, jumping forward in time a bit with not much recognizable from earlier UC. It spawned the very popular (but thus far unadapted) Crossbone manga, and a prequel manga (F90). If you're only watching, this can be safely skipped if you want.

Next comes Gundam Victory, another large jump forward in time where not much is recognizable. V is... rough. In more ways than one. It's not bad, but it is brutal. Not required viewing IMO.

The first Alternate Universes are up next, but since we are still talking UC, it's not a bad time to watch 08th MS Team. It puts us back in the One Year War, primarily in Southeast Asia. It's a fan favorite for multiple reasons.

And I'll put it here just to say I mentioned it: there's a live action movie called G-Saviour. It's bad, very bad. I've seen cosplayers with better uniforms. Far future UC once again, might as well be its own thing. Completely optional.

Alternate UniverseAs a way to try and jump start the flagging Gundam franchise, Sunrise came up with three AU scenarios and aired them back to back: G Gundam, Gundam Wing, and Gundam X. Wing also has an associated OVA/movie (depending on the cut) called Endless Waltz. Short form:

G is 1v1 fighting anime, but with robots.

Wing is angsty teen team Gundam.

X is kind of like a post-apocalyptic UC where instead of one colony dropping, they made it rain.

They all have more pluses than minuses IMO. Easy recommends that can be watched any time.

Capping off this era is Turn A Gundam. It's beautiful. Hard recommend, but it's better when you have a few other series under your belt.

My legs are asleep. Will continue later. πŸ˜…

[–] MelodiousFunk@slrpnk.net 5 points 3 days ago (2 children)

About here is where the modern era of Gundam starts. Release dates are all over the place, so production order becomes secondary to interest level in my opinion. It begins with a new AU, so let's wrap those up before getting back to UC.Β 

AUGundam Seed is probably the most successful of the Gundam AUs. There's two full series (Seed and Seed Destiny), a handful of OVAs, a feature film (Seed Freedom), and an upcoming project with not much known aside from being a prequel to Freedom. Heavily inspired by UC, but it does its own thing. Has its fair share of fans and detractors.Β 

Gundam 00 is often described as a reboot of the Wing concept: a team of stylish specialist Gundams trying to change the world. There's a full series (two seasons) and a feature film, A Wakening of the Trailblazer.Β 

Gundam Age is a full series that I started watching but it didn't grab me. I'll get around to it eventually.Β 

Reconguista in G is a short(?) series (26 eps) that I haven't watched yet. It got some flak from what I remember, and was redone as 5 compilation movies which were better received.Β 

Iron Blooded Orphans is a full series (two seasons) that centers around a private military corporation taken over by its members, kinda forming a co-op. Leans heavily into the dystopia aesthetic and gets very dark. Liked it, but it would be hard to watch again. Theres some gut-wrenching stuff that goes down. There's another upcoming series adapted from a game that got cancelled.Β 

The Build series is both odd and charming. It's set in our universe, where Gundam is a franchise with fans etc. But it's near-future, and the gimmick is that you can scan your Gunpla and fight is a VR setting. Tournaments, intrigue, cameos, the whole nine yards. It's both a celebration of the franchise and a blatant commercial for model kits. Build Fighters especially is a joy to watch. There are four series and a handful of OVAs.Β 

The Witch From Mercury is the newest AU. It caused an internet shitstorm because a vocal minority of gatekeepers were upset about one or more of the following: female protagonists; school setting (to start); wOkE; WHERE MUH WAR CRIMEZ!; normies in my space eeeeeew. Fuck em. Excellent characterization, great mech designs, slow burn plot that really ramps up the stakes. I thoroughly enjoyed it, though I have my criticisms.

UC gets kind of funky from here since there's a lot of retcon and parallel continuity.

UCIgloo is divisive. It's 6 episodes of mid-2000s CGI and it shows. Uncanny valley everywhere. But the staging and characters save it IMO. Set during OYW, it follows a Zeon test team of pilots and engineers as they run various pieces of equipment through the paces. Igloo 2 switches to the Federation, but keeps the theme of being plot-adjacent going. At this point IRL, Gundam had been away from OYW for a long time, and I found the return to a familiar setting from a different point of view refreshing.Β 

Unicorn is a return to core UC, picking up a few years after CCA and weaving in notes from ZZ. There's a TV cut (RE:0096), but the OVA presentation is stronger IMO. It's among the best that Gundam has to offer.Β 

The sequel feature film, Narrative, is less so. In true Gundam movie fashion, it would have worked better as an OVA or short series.Β 

Gundam: The Origin is an adaptation of the flashback sequences from the manga of the same name, which itself is a retelling of the original series. It mostly follows Char and Sayla from childhood up until just before the beginning of First Gundam. There are enough continuity differences from the original series to set it apart as its own thing. But IMO, the spirit is there, and that's what counts.Β 

There is also a feature film in the Origin timeline, Cucuruz Doan's Island. This is an adaptation of "missing episode" that was struck from the original run at the creator's insistence, as it suffered from poor animation and production. This is another love letter to the franchise (and excuse to make a ton of model kits, naturally).

Thunderbolt is a two movie adaptation of the manga of the same name, set in a parallel UC in the OYW. It's brutal, but so slick. The manga is still going strong, but I've heard nothing about continuing the animation, which is a bummer.Β 

Hathaway is a 3-movie adaptation of the Hathaway's Flash novels. Only the first movie has been released so far. If I am remembering correctly, the novels are the sequel to Beltorchka's Children, the novel series that CCA was based on. But there are key differences between BC and CCA, and I believe the Hathaway movies use the CCA version of events. It's all kind of a mess.Β 

Requiem for Vengeance is yet another parallel UC (probably), set on Earth during OYW. Plenty of uncanny valley CG (like Igloo) and told from the Zeon perspective (like Igloo). I thought it was pretty well done. It's just baffling that they made it look so good... and then dropped the ball on the human animations.Β 

Finally, Silver Phantom is a VR "movie" set around the time of Unicorn. No idea how canon any of it will be, or if it'll get any sort of release that doesn't require strapping Facebook to my noggin.

There's also a bunch of one-off animations from various sources. Oh, and SD Gundam. So much SD Gundam.Β 

Please, don't let this be overwhelming lol. There's 45 years of Gundam. Nobody has to go through all of it. I still haven't and I'm what you might call obsessed. Just enjoy the journey! I'll be happy to answer any questions to the best of my knowledge.

[–] maplebar@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Not overwhelming at all, and I enjoyed the read. Thanks for taking the time!

Like many in the west, my first exposure was to Gundam Wing on Toonami, and while I remember thinking the character and mech designs were cool, it never really clicked for me. I never watched it from the beginning, however, so I don't think I can fairly judge it.

Mobile Suit Gundam (1979) Vague Spoiler TalkI really enjoyed the original Mobile Suit Gundam (0079), having just finished it. Despite being aware of Gundam for my entire life as an anime geek, it always felt to me like its own niche thing. For some reason I always had the [false] impression that it was really super dry, with a focus on the military/technology aspects over character drama and storytelling. Initially I wasn't sure whether to watch the series version or the film retelling, but I wanted to try experiencing the whole thing in its original form and I'm glad I did.

I did find it a bit slow at times, particularly towards the very beginning at around episode 3 when the focus was primarily on the battle dynamics between Amuro and Char. But once the story started to get into the human/psychological effects that the war was having on Amuro and others, I was able to really get into it and easily binge a few episodes per day. I wont say too much about the ending, other than that it was truly epic, ambitious, and very well done. I only wish some of the concepts that were important at the end would have been gradually worked into the show sooner, but obviously that's hindsight that the creators didn't have the benefit of.

As a HUGE Evangelion (and Gainax in general) fan I always knew that Gundam was a big influence on it, but I was still really impressed and fascinated by the many parallels--not just in terms of the story and characters, but also in the direction (like the style and timing of the cuts), and even the soundtrack (there are a few Gundam OST cues that I wouldn't be surprised were used as placeholders or references during Eva's production) . To a lesser extent I also like the original Eureka Seven, and the parallels there are even more strikingly obvious in retrospect--from the Gekko State being kind of like White Base, to the 3 kids on the ship, and some story beats being very similar. These shows obviously do their own thing too, but I really enjoyed picking up on the various ways in which Gundam had influenced them.

So yeah, I really liked 0079... Both from an "important part of anime history" perspective, but also just as a very good and ambitious 70s anime in it's own right. I come away from the experience as a budding Gundam fan, and I think I've really been sleeping on the show. I'm looking forward to checking out more of the series.

Because I don't have a lot of time before Gquuuuuux (what a name Khara... lol) premieres, I won't be able to hit all the best stuff in order. So my current plan is to get a sampling of different well-regarded stuff from different eras. I'm thinking about going straight for 0080 War in the Pocket next (Small Gainax connection there too), then 08th MS Team, and then maybe checking out a bit of Witch from Mercury if I have time. Basically I'm going for the Gundam sample platter. lol

Finally, anything I should know about watching the series vs the films? Are the 0079 films meaningfully different (in terms of story, animation quality, etc.) than the series to warrant checking them out too? Would you recommend speeding through the Zeta films or waiting until later when I have time to watch the full Zeta series? Also, are there any standout must-watch films in the Gundam series in general?

[–] MelodiousFunk@slrpnk.net 2 points 2 days ago

Like many in the west, my first exposure was to Gundam Wing on Toonami, and while I remember thinking the character and mech designs were cool, it never really clicked for me. I never watched it from the beginning, however, so I don't think I can fairly judge it.

Wing was also my gateway. A friend of mine got me watching on VHS during downtime at work (man I'm old), but the official releases were taking forever to come out. So I tried tracking down Toonami reruns, and the damn thing never had a consistent time slot by then lol. So things felt very disjointed. It was only on rewatch when I got the DVDs that I realized that disjointed feel was due to the plot. πŸ˜‚ I still enjoy it but it's definitely a brain-off show.

Glad you enjoyed! If the end felt like things could have been fleshed out better, it's because they were supposed to be. The show was slated to be outright cancelled, but they negotiated to at least allow the it to end properly. The end result is about 10 eps of planned content had to be cut.

The movie versions do some massaging to work in the newtype concept earlier, as well as improve the overall pacing. A lot of series ended up getting the compilation movie treatment, but 0079 is the only one to do it right IMO. They are worth watching on their own, and Ai Senshi is a fucking banger.

The Zeta movies in particular I do not recommend as a shortcut for the series. Main reason being the ending was completely changed, which makes the start of ZZ problematic if not impossible. The cuts between 80s and 2000s animation are also jarring. If you want the overall notes, they're there. But the series does a far better job of telling the story.

0080 and 08th Team are fine next steps. They touch on thematics brought up in Zeta a bit, but that's all. They're self-contained and worth watching.

The only feature film I can recommend at the moment is Cucuruz Doan's Island. Just roll with the Origin continuity differences (Sleggar had already joined the crew on Earth, for example) and it's basically an extended episode of 0079 with modern production. I think there's a good chance it's exactly what you're looking for.

WfM is its own thing and can be enjoyed at your convenience. Hell, you can probably binge it between episodes of GQuuuuuuX if you wanted lol.

and even the soundtrack (there are a few Gundam OST cues that I wouldn't be surprised were used as placeholders or references during Eva's production) .

I'm almost positive I read/watched that MSG and Eva shared some sound staff, and could have sworn that Anno himself was involved somehow. But I cannot find a source, and searches are naturally putting GQX front and center thanks to the Khara connection. So grain of salt all of that, and if I come across the source (because it's now bugging me lol) I'll share it.

Enjoy!

[–] Unboxious@ani.social 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Build Fighters especially is a joy to watch

This is so frustrating to me because Build Fighters is my favorite Gundam series but I can't recommend it to anyone without asking them to watch over a hundred episodes of other stuff first!

[–] MelodiousFunk@slrpnk.net 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It's definitely watchable without prior knowledge. Some friends of mine got into it blind. But you get soooo much more out of it if you have that solid Gundam base. It really is a love letter.

[–] Unboxious@ani.social 2 points 2 days ago

I'd agree that it's watchable without prior knowledge, but scenes like the hypnosis one are soooo much funnier if you know what they're referencing!

[–] shittydwarf@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

This guy gundams

[–] MelodiousFunk@slrpnk.net 6 points 3 days ago

Buddy I Gundam so much I'm pretty sure I have a problem πŸ˜‚

[–] Madison420@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago

Thunderbolt if a bit of gore and violence is your game.

[–] Unboxious@ani.social 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Hello, do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior G Gundam?

Seriously though, it's one of my favorite ones and can be watched at any time. It's kind of like if Gundam was a saturday morning cartoon. I think if you watch the first episode you'll have a pretty good idea if it's for you.

[–] MelodiousFunk@slrpnk.net 2 points 3 days ago

I think if you watch the first episode you'll have a pretty good idea if it's for you.

I had the opposite experience. I watched the first ~5 eps and had to put it down. Was not digging the format. I eventually picked it back up and it finally grabbed me. Years later, I had to convince my spouse to sit through the beginning too lol. But by the end she was loving it.

[–] Even_Adder@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Gquuuuuux is it's own timeline so you don't have to watch anything to get up to speed, but if you're watching Universal Century, watching it in release order would be the way to go. Skip Igloo, Requiem, and ZZ if you want. I finally watched ZZ on my third UC rewatch two years ago, and it made no difference in how I viewed the later series. ZZ is a huge waste of time.

[–] Unboxious@ani.social 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Gquuuuuux is it’s own timeline

Based on the latest trailer it actually appears to be UC related; there's a Zeon insignia on someone's collar.

Also, I really liked ZZ. I understand being frustrated with it (especially those two teens who just exist to make Bright's life even harder), but to me it was a welcome change of tone after how dark Zeta was.

[–] maplebar@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

Based on Tsurumaki's past work on Diebuster and the Evangelion Rebuilds, I'm guessing it'll feel very separate but also be connected in interesting ways.

[–] SpikesOtherDog@ani.social 4 points 3 days ago

Not really advice, just sharing an experience.

I started watching it in release order. I got burnt out and had trouble with double zeta due to the shift in tone. I really liked Witch From Mercury, but I haven't been able to drag myself back.

[–] watercat@ani.social 1 points 3 days ago

It's really not like it used to be, you just have to pick one of the newest version and see if you like it. There's no continuing from older series, technology is randomly founded and Gundams have yet to evolve beyond what we expected. I'm sure you'll like one of the newer indie studios version of Gundam ideas with current and future technology being used which matches the sci-fi genre vs old style Gundam that has political views.