this post was submitted on 19 Jan 2025
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https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/06/01/defend-say/

"I Disapprove of What You Say, But I Will Defend to the Death Your Right to Say It." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall

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[–] radix@lemmy.world 31 points 3 days ago

You can fight for the legal right to be stupid and anti-social and still call someone out for being stupid and anti-social.

[–] cyrano@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 3 days ago
[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago

"It is a less significant thing I do, than I have ever done."

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I agree that pureexpression is a horrible idea in combination with the internet. You can't allow people to just rile up eachother with misinformation and become terrorists over issues that don't exist. Be it Jewish space lasers, Mexican rapist immigrants or dumb conspiracy theories like vaccines causing autism.

Especially if you have a following, or echo chambers, content just has to be stopped.

Humanity is not ready for full free flow of information, not as long as dumb idiots believe anything they reas

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[–] boramalper@lemmy.world 12 points 3 days ago (1 children)

People used to defend to the death others’ right to say things (that they may even disagree with): National Socialist Party of America v. Village of Skokie

[…] The injunction was granted, prohibiting marchers at the proposed Skokie rally from wearing Nazi uniforms or displaying swastikas. On behalf of the NSPA, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) challenged the injunction. The ACLU assigned civil rights attorneys David Goldberger and Burton Joseph to Collin's cases. The ACLU argued that the injunction violated the First Amendment rights of the marchers to express themselves. The ACLU challenge was unsuccessful at the lower court level.

The ACLU appealed on behalf of NSPA, but both the Illinois Appellate Court and the Illinois Supreme Court refused to expedite the case or to stay the injunction. The ACLU then appealed that refusal to the Supreme Court of the United States.

Here is the interesting bit:

[–] Cephalotrocity@biglemmowski.win 14 points 3 days ago

According to Nadine Strossen, the case was part of a gradual process in the 20th century where the Court strengthened First Amendment protections and narrowed down the application of earlier decisions which upheld restrictions of free speech, in part due to the realisation that the Illinois restrictions on Nazi "hate speech" were so broad they could have been equally used to prohibit Martin Luther King Jr. demonstrations in Skokie.

People so quick to applaud censorship need to consider how their arguments can work against them to.

[–] UnfortunateShort@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago (3 children)

It is totally fine to be politically moderate. I'd go as far as to go full mathematics professor and claim without proof™ that centrists being tolerant of intolerance and extremism is a thing mostly made up by extremists to discredit them.

I can only speak for Europe, but pretty much every center party you will find here actively opposes such things. They don't go around and beat up nazis on the streets, yes, but that's not the kind of opposition I'd expect from a political party to begin with. If you wanna do that, that's fine by me. The thing is, I have a strong feeling that particularly far-left splinter groups tend to conclude that "centrists bad" or even "centrists basically nazis" because they don't agree with them or their methods.

That said, if you ever want to have any say, your only choices are compromise and violence. It is a huge problem that broad alliances are very hard to achieve among far-left, moderate-left and center parties. At least for people who wish to have a left or left-leaning government. Why do we hardly ever get one? Well, I'd say usually the moderate parties are there, ready to pick up the crown, while the left is fighting over which one to safe first and the most once they claim it. And all that is preventing the far-right from claiming power (if anything at all these days) are the center parties some people want to hate so desperately

I would sort myself into the social-liberal drawer. Moderate left. I think reasoning with nazis, tankies, religious fanatics etc. is a waste of time. I also think you're best off creating an environment where as few people as possible become either. And I think the main ways to achieve this are welfare, education and psychological support. The thing is, I want to make this happen at almost any cost and not just demand it for the next 50 years.

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[–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 12 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

...until you decide it's your right to publicly espouse a terrorist ideology like Nazism.

Then fuck you. Letting you Nazi motherfuckers hide behind the First Amendment was one of the worst mistakes America ever made, and I hope the Italian plumbers of the world make it very clear how welcome you are in decent society.

[–] kodomo@lemm.ee 0 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Okay, so terrorist beliefs like islamism as well?

Or maybe also terrorist beliefs like any show of support for Luigi Mangione? Or anyone who has read Ted K? Or anyone who advocates for radical change?

Great precedent for a government to selectively lock up anyone they want.

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[–] TransfemGhostface 0 points 1 day ago

CNN has been like this ever since Zaslav took over and it’s EXHAUSTING to hear my parents constantly having it on in the background

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