Look, if this post is too heavy for this community, feel free to remove it. Admittedly this is a very serious subject, and it occupies something of a grey area regarding suitable discourse that I'm uncertain of. But Gore is one of the more popular of the recent batch of follower mods to hit the Nexus, and it's because this situation is so serious that I feel there needs to be greater attention brought to it.

For those who aren't familiar, Gore was a follower written both as a way for the mod author to express deeply personal feelings about traumatic experiences that occurred in their own life and as a memorial to a transgender friend of theirs who passed away. In order to be welcoming to the greatest possible audience, Gore had dialog options in order to refer to players by non-binary pronouns, and in response to some backlash against the above, Gore's dev also uploaded optional textures that could be used to add top surgery scars to Gore, implying that Gore himself was transgender.

I imagine that these traits attracted a certain. . .audience of individuals who found the premise unpalatable.

Regardless of what one personally thinks about a follower being handled in the way Gore was, the fact that the situation ended in this manner concerns me deeply. Harassing not just the individual themselves, but someone's real life contacts over a follower mod being written in a divisive way is terrifying, and it sets a nightmarish precedent for how the Skyrim modding community might conduct itself in the future. I feel the need to discuss what happened here because not acknowledging issues like this just leads to them festering further.

The community here at Lemmy is small. But I think we should put our best foot forward in holding ourselves to a high standard. We should strive to maintain a civil, friendly demeanor not just on Lemmy, but in the Skyrim community as a whole. To that end, it's important to know what behavior is not civil and friendly, and what situations we should do our best to try to put a stop to if we see signs of it ramping up in the wild. Harassment of this nature is very much one of those situations. So I'd like to propose this. Let's do whatever little we can to ensure that a situation like this never happens again. If harassment is against the rules/TOS of a website, it should be reported. And if not, I strongly recommend pushing back against it. The Skyrim modding community deserves to be a place where people can feel safe. Let's make sure it is one.

EDIT It appears that development on Gore has resumed.

There is. . .a lot to unpack, but the TL;DR of it is that the people that Gore's mod author has accused of targeting his friends and family were a pair of women that he also claims had an unrequited crush on him and targeted him for that reason??? And in response, those two women have in turn accused him of being the one to have a creepy unrequited crush on them and that have threatened to doxx them and have posted on a now-deleted Reddit thread outlining their side of the story. This story seems highly plausible on its face, however one of the two accused individuals has been going back and making posts and edits after the thread has already closed that make her narrative increasingly shaky. Most notably, she claimed that another follower mod author named RabbittWinri was opposed to her repeatedly bringing up information about a third party because RabbittWinri was afraid said third party would be targeted by Gore's developer and his friends, which I personally decided to confront RabbitWinri about and received an incredibly blunt and noticeably confused response denying.

EDIT 2 SO IT TURNED OUT MY OWN RESEARCH FORESHADOWED A BIGGER REVELATION

The evidence posted against Gore's developer has been revealed to be highly manipulated. The Reddit moderator that previously trusted the women who pressed counter-allegations against him has confirmed the legitimacy of this. I'm posting in bold text because considering the misinformation we've been fed, this update is important.

New information can be found HERE: https://www.teddit.net/r/skyrimmods/comments/14qwcap/regarding_recent_allegations_about_me_and_my_mod/

Part of my speculative discussion in the comments below this post involved suspicions of malicious editing in an image. AS IT TURNS OUT, THIS IS OUTRIGHT CONFIRMED TO APPLY TO THE AUDIO FILES, THE MOST DAMNING PART OF THE INITIAL REDDIT THREAD

YOUTUBE LINK TO REFUTATION, WHICH IS ALSO PROVIDED IN THREAD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTSoLGBSask

The new Reddit thread also contains a full transcript of events compiled by a different moderator than the one involved in the post, for those hard of hearing.

In case it isn't clear, I would also like to point out that it's Alarycia's testimony that was refuted in the full footage which is now available. My own research turned up flaws in mookymilk's narrative. So it seems that both of them really were lying in tandem for some reason.

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[–] postgeographix@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Apparently there is a lot more to it than that? The mod author was allegedly creeping on younger women, there are audio files of this on the reddit skyrimmods post about this.

I cant be arsed with drama, dont know or interact with anyone involved, haven't listened to the audio files posted as 'evidence', nor do i use rhe mod... Only posting here so that a fuller picture is provided.

All that said, if the allegations are true, and the mod author is trying to use actual issues like transphobia and homophobia to cover his own shittiness, then i'd say some Internet pitchforks are more than warranted.

[–] tauerlund@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The mod author might be a dick, but I'd hardly call a 32-year-old being interested in a 25-year-old "creeping on younger women". Hyperbole at its best.

[–] postgeographix@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

That's fair enough, I don't care enough about this drama to verify every claim made on the reddit thread. thus the 'allegedly'

[–] TheMadBeagle@lemmy.one 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

But you care enough to share something you didn't verify

[–] postgeographix@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Well observed.

[–] Rick@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Could you or someone else post them over here? I feel like this would be a very important piece to this story. I can't even find the post about this on reddit.

[–] postgeographix@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/14p5f2d/gore_mod_locked/

[–] Rick@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Thank you!

[–] Coricus@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Well this is. . .hmm. If this all turns out to be true, then I think my take would be the same as the Reddit thread in that this thread should be kept up so people know the full picture about the scenario. Both scenarios are equally upsetting to me, and the fact that another huge follower mod author who is friends with a large chunk of the follower mod community is drawing a line in the sand over it makes the whole thing even more uncomfortable.

For the record, I'm familiar with the "beef" that mookymilk mentioned, because the user desperately trying to shout everyone down in that thread documented it in detail.

https://farshores.tumblr.com/post/675486442705862656/wait-wtf-happened-i-feel-like-i-missed-a

https://rabbittwinrithings.tumblr.com/post/675700001648885760/okay-time-to-begin

Frankly I'm even less sure what to make of RabbitWinri's reaction to everything happening here than the events themselves. Is it because she feels a friend is being targeted and trusts them too much to assume the worst? Is it because the incident with the Kaidan Extended team made her distrust information that might paint someone more politically aligned with her in the wrong light? Was the Kaidan Extended drama FAKED, considering apparently there's someone with a reputation for faking Discord posts to stir up drama running around? And if so, was RabbitWinri aware?

I will also note that before I posted here, I made a (rather more heated) post to the same effect on Tumblr. Not too long -after- I posted here, I was sent a response by someone stating the official story that the Reddit thread states that Gore's author and his friends are going with in their arguments, that someone had tried to flirt with Gore's author, been turned down, and proceeded to go ballistic. That response. . .was from FluffySpaceShark, another individual who briefly posted in the Reddit thread to try to defend Hayden against the allegations.

I have to admit. . .as furious as I was initially making this thread, I also had a strange feeling in the back of my mind that there was something I was missing. I like to assume the best out of people. I just hope that the worst case scenario here, that this was collusion from the mod author community in general, doesn't turn out to be true.

EDIT: I have reason to believe that the above three paragraphs were all just paranoia talking. I'm making a new post covering the updated status quo. Found out something critical. This post is still good to have context for the EE drama, though.

[–] Coricus@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Apparently there was even more to it than that. The audio files that were provided in that thread appear to have been maliciously edited. Since you were the one who shared the initial Reddit post with everyone and your post here has received the most engagement on the matter, I figure that posting the update that has been posted to provide a fuller picture once again would be a reasonable idea.

https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/14qwcap/regarding_recent_allegations_about_me_and_my_mod/

Admittedly my posting the link three different times is a bit heavy handed, but this thread is starting to get old and I figured that the people who were involved in discussing the Reddit side of the drama initially might appreciate being given an update on the situation.

[–] postgeographix@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

'Allegedly' is doing a lot of heavy lifting in my original comment. Thanks for the update, but I am done with the drama. Regret making the original comment, tbh.

[–] initf@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What did he mean by thal doxxed him? Was he using his real name on his nexus account? That's doxxing yourself. Otherwise yeah that's pretty bad to doxx someone else if thal did indeed give out his full name and other identifying information. I keep reading about mod authors getting harassment in real life and I always wondered how people were able to get the authors' real names, phone numbers, etc.

All of this drama reads like a bunch of teenagers interacting tbh. If someone presented this to me as a script, I would tell them it was badly written haha

Also side note: you can use teddit.net to link to reddit without giving reddit traffic. I think there's another one too called libreddit.

[–] Coricus@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

He doxxed himself. Honestly, not the brightest move. Somehow it took until everyone on the internet turned on him for him to realize that wasn't a good idea. Wasn't just his real name, either, I just realized that his mod also made a point of sharing another piece of information that would allow people to find him exactly. And to a dangerous degree, too, considering he was using the mod to memorialize a trans woman who passed away.

Honestly I just kind of ignore the part where he's arguing that, he's trying to clean up his online footprint that he objectively screwed up because he already had his open personal info used against him and now he's freaked out. Which I don't hold against him really, mistakes are mistakes and being in this kind of situation would cloud anyone's head from stress. It was just. . .also another mistake to assume malice when a lot of people were unaware. Even considering the, uh. Tension involved.

. . .TBH, the word "doxx" has been tossed around like a ragdoll this whole time and I don't think anyone's used it accurately once.

Hopefully some lessons are at least learned from all this.

[–] Coricus@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

SO. Uh, update on the Gore situation for everyone. Making this a top level post because this is an important development.

So postgeographix shared this Reddit thread, which I will also link here for convenience, which seemingly has some pretty damning evidence that this was actually a coverup for HaydenDaws harassing a couple of women. After all, there is a lot of it.

However. . .because I didn't want to believe that there was some woman-harassing follower mod author conspiracy, I decided to react in the only way a completely psychotic internet weirdo can.

I absolutely slammed RabbittWinri's DMs with requests for clarification while she was asleep.

Which, you know, in and of itself wouldn't prove anything. I guessed I just assumed I would be able to read the truth from the vibe?

But no, it actually did, insanely enough and here's why.

A couple of hours ago, mookymilk posted an update on the Reddit thread. Not sure why, the Reddit thread is closed, but here it is, in censored form out of respect for RabbittWinri's concern for her friend. You can find it there yourself, although it might be more respectful of the woman in question's privacy to simply read the censored excerpt here:

Also there was a person in this thread who claimed [Blank] would be doxxed by this information, despite not having any information she could've been found by, [Blank] isn't even her real name. That person is a close friend of [blank] who wanted to get my comments about what [blank] revealed taken down because [blank] didn't want to face any backlash from the Gore team for betraying them with this information. Which again, amplifies that I wasn't lying about our conversation. [Blank] has since been banned from the Gore server.

"A person" blatantly refers to RabbittWinri if you actually read through all of the posts on Reddit. So how does this prove anything?

Babbling incoherently about this was the last thing I did before RabbittWinri woke up, and her very first response was "Real quick, no, Hayd didn't threaten my friend."

So yeah, the whole thing that was said by mookymilk two hours before? Complete lie.

RabbittWinri didn't know too much on her end, but apparently her friend was initially on good terms with mooky and Alarycia and was approached by them about Gore_dev's supposed behavior, including that he was apparently insulting her behind her back. She apparently started getting suspicious and asking for proof (much as I did with RabbittWinri, although that ended much more amicably), and they promptly turned on her and went full Mean Girls. Which is just one person's word against another, of course, but the narrative disconnect sure isn't. Like, seriously RabbittWinri was ready to share her side and here I was eyeballing her groggy half-awake first comment like none of it even mattered.

After having learned about all of the above, I decided to share the quote from mookymilk with RabbittWinri, because Rabbit's initial response was pretty damning against mooky. Her response to the full quote? Her friend isn't banned from that server, she just leaves sometimes, that is her friend's real name, and any screenshots of her friend agreeing with mooky and Alarycia are from the time period where they were initially friendly to her mentioned in the previous paragraph.

None of which would have made mooky's narrative look fake if she hadn't specifically made up a story about how RabbittWinri was just trying to protect her friend from the evil Gore_dev. If RabbittWinri had been depicted as in on it, there would have been no way of knowing anything was fake. Certainly Hayd, RabbittWinri, and their friends weren't going to say much outwardly. But no.

The Reddit thread is a scam and a hoax and I feel like fricking Sherlock Holmes solving an unsolvable crime with some stupid minor chunk of evidence all the cops overlooked.

Edit: Also a couple of hours later she edited it again to say this:

Their entire server has shut down all further invites and they are also going around banning anyone in there who is not completely on their side or just simply too quiet.

Also not true. I saw people who were from both there and the Remiel server acting incredibly confused because the entire Gore server was shut down, without warning. There was no simply shutting down invites or "purging of the enemy," the place just up and closed up shop before the people already there even had time to react.

Like, mooky's narrative was so hard to challenge in her initial several pages of information, and now she's just. . .compulsively lying because she likes the attention? Which, again, the Reddit thread is closed. I don't even know what the point of this is.

[–] Rick@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Holy shit that is so fucked up. I am very much on the side of the mod author. I love mods that memorialize people and pets that meant a lot to mod authors, and the mod author already felt so much shit over a really good friend passing away. The fact that other people targeted them over something so benign pisses me off so much. Nexus really needs to step up on moderation as there is tons of harassment that goes on in the comments section of some mods.

[–] initf@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

This is so bizarre, even for skyrim modding community standards lol

[–] VulKendov@reddthat.com 4 points 1 year ago

I find insane that people can get so worked up about something like this. Its not like anyone is forcing him into your game.

How is the mere existence of a transgender follower mod so offensive.

There's a transgender altmer in the summerset dlc of eso and argonians can change gender with the hist, so its not like the idea of changing gender is something that doesn't exist in the lore of elder scrolls.

I'm upset at the was transphobes will go out of their way to attack someone.

[–] ceejbot@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well, that Reddit post was one heck of a journey.

I end up being pissed off that the mod author is likely using false claims of transphobic harassment to distract from his own commonplace sleazy behavior coming to light.

[–] Coricus@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Seems like there was actually an update to this situation. Since you personally seem to have been the most incensed at the mod author, I figured sharing the update directly to your post here would be important as well. If nothing else for clarity. https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/14qwcap/regarding_recent_allegations_about_me_and_my_mod/

Seems like we were all taken for a ride??

[–] ceejbot@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Yeah, we sure were. Sigh.

[–] Coricus@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Now that new information is out, I have an additional post I'd like to make about something odd that I saw in the initial Reddit thread, that I feel now has new context with what was revealed in the new Reddit thread.

So, in the new Reddit thread, THIS was the middle paragraph of what Gore's mod author posted and part of the video, which, uh

At the tail end of this video, alarycia claimed that Thallassa, and the other Skyrim mods subreddit admins and discord mods, bought her [NSFW] to blackmail her about her [NSFW], and that they were behind all of this. If you’ve seen any of what happened on the subreddit, you would know thallassa was the mod she and mooky went to publicly denounce us on the subreddit and have in her corner. It is our belief she made these allegations up about them, just like she did the ones about us, so our two modmin teams would not have any communication. So that she could get away with cutting and cropping DM’s and tell Thallassa that she was doing so because she was [smack] taking other women in our server that she tried to involve in this. The reality is she was [smack] talking thal and making horrific allegations about her, and the other women on their modmin team.

Even in this crazy situation, this is absolutely insane. But I'd been thinking about something odd that mookymilk posted in the initial Reddit thread for a while that I think this might just put into additional context.

All things considered, [Gore developer's name] could've just taken the L on the mod, rather than have his actions exposed publicly. You would have rathered no one know and just kept developing your mod. It was the merciful option so as not to cause an uproar.

This

is weird.

The more I stared at it, the more it didn't make sense. Wouldn't taking down the mod draw attention publicly to Hayden's actions? Wouldn't ceasing development draw more attention? How would this situation involve Gore's mod author "taking the L" on the mod, when Gore actually had nothing to do with the accusations posted outside of being how everyone met? How would taking it down be "the merciful option so as to not cause an uproar?"

And the more I stared at it, the more I was like. . .wait, doesn't that sound like blackmail?

Like none of the allegations were ever the point, and for whatever twisted reason this was all one huge ruse to get Hayden to take Gore down?

And I was like, no, no, if I say that I'll look insane. Even I felt a little crazy for thinking it.

But in light of the information exonerating Gore's developer, it's been put into a bit of a different perspective for me. If Alarycia and mookymilk claimed that everything they did to Gore's developer was stuff he actually did to them. . .and now with the new information presented, they've been caught claiming that the Reddit mod that stood up for them blackmailed them, it puts it in a different light. What if all this was blackmail in some bizarre fashion? And this statement in the initial Reddit thread just. . .slipped out, because mooky was so excited to carry on the ruse that she accidentally hinted at the truth.

. . .I don't know, this has been a wild situation, and it has me thinking some wild things.

[–] ceejbot@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The mod author changed his user name on the Nexus to look like he deleted his account but he did not. 🍿🍿🍿

[–] Coricus@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

. . .ehh?? Well that explains why the comments section for it unlocked and then locked again.

Looking at RabbittWinri's Discord, he seems to have decided to. . .go back to working on it like nothing happened???

Which is frickin' weird, but the messed up thing is that it only really tells us more about our own biases than what's actually going on. If he's guilty, then of course he wants to evade consequences for the whole thing. And if he's innocent, the allegations he made were serious enough that he probably just wants everyone targeting him to buzz off. Because, you know, the reason he initially decided to stop was because he was being targeted, and now he intends to take other routes to deal with the situation.

. . .Looking at back at mooky's post, the image where she says she has doxxing receipts has screenshots of him actually attesting to the fact that he was going to do exactly the above, so I guess we could have technically found out sooner. . .but it's the exact same post where she kept lying about other topics for no fathomable reason, so I've started placing under deeper scrutiny what the context could be and why she would say that. Frankly I think there's a theme of Gore's dev doing things that look incredibly suspicious, but far more so if you already presume guilt out of him. The litigation threats towards the women are real as per what RabbittWinri told me, but if his friends and family were actually targeted he actually has grounds. . .plus can't Alarycia countersue if he's serious? If he's lying, good luck in court I guess.

I'm going to guess the threat to contact (presumably mooky's) college is also real (and worded in an entirely childish manner that doesn't help his case), but that's. . .not actually doxxing unless he says what college it is publicly, which the screenshot conspicuously doesn't show. Doxxing is posting someone's private contact information online, not alluding to the fact that you might have some of it. Which tracks, because in some comments that I think the mods deleted but are still visible on mooky's page, she also accuses RabbittWinri of doxxing the Kaidan 2 Extended server, which is. . .also not what happened. She links the exact same thread I did in another post at one point, which very clearly just posts people's Discord names. There was no personal information presented at any point. That is, at most, exactly as much doxxing as mooky is doing herself constantly bringing up RabbittWinri's friend. I mean, as far as the Imgur link goes, Hayd contacting their college is unsettling, yes, but doxxing is still different than what's being shown, and if they contacted his IRL friends and family. . .well, it's not a good look, but I can see where the motive would come from. And the kicker with that particular screenshot is that it's cut off at the top in a way that makes Gore's dev look like a cartoon supervillain, but with a comment that could very easily be referring to mooky and Alarycia. Which wouldn't prove innocence, either, but is definitely some very deceptive editing if I'm picking up on it correctly.

For my part, I'm still going to watch the situation cautiously. I'm not going to fully presume innocence of him yet, perhaps it'll still turn out that he harassed Alarycia and I'm going to look very silly for playing devil's advocate, but at the absolute minimum I no longer unquestioningly believe anything mooky said. Even the Reddit mod doesn't know where the heck she came from, the response was basically just "Well, Alarycia has a very good track record on our server, so I have no reason to disbelieve any of this. . .oh, and mooky corroborated it, I guess. No clue who this woman is, but she's a second witness, so she must be in the clear."

Yeah? And I was in Carthage that time when it stopped being Carthage.

Even if Alarycia is telling the truth, I'm fairly certain at this point that mookymilk at best was contacted by Alarycia the same way RabbittWinri's friend was, took one look at the accusations made, and decided to take what she thought was a good opportunity for 15 minutes of fame and run with it. And her testimony being bunk raises questions about the whole thing. Does she seem normal outside of this incident? Yeah, but like. I've unknowingly hung out with not one, but two different guys that pretended to be their own girlfriends online for attention and was clueless for years, along with an entire community of other people. Both of them faked all kinds of other bizarre drama as well and people didn't realize until things eventually came to a head. It wasn't a focus for people because, 99% of the time, they just posted normal content about their hobbies. People are weird. She wants approval from Alarycia, she wants approval from the Kaidan 2 Extended team, and she wants approval from Reddit. And she's pleased as punch that she's getting it.

Admittedly this post got kind of long and off the original topic, but I wanted to make a point about how perspective plays a big part in how everything comes off. The Reddit mod being exasperated that several people showed them "evidence" of the accusations being fake but it all just being what she saw is probably because all of the information is incredibly ambiguous to the point that people can make contradictory assumptions. I don't think anyone can claim that Gore's mod author is a man possessed of the fine art of, ahem, social skills. On the other hand, a massive chunk of the narrative against him is someone who's clearly just in this whole thing for attention regardless of what literally anyone else's motives are, so I'm going to just watch the whole thing with narrowed eyes and see what comes of it. While continuing to make note of any developments I can find to see which way the evidence falls.

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