We hope that shooting ourselves in the foot today will allow us to run faster in the years to come...
Expecting either US political party to drop its support for Israel is a fool's game.
this post was submitted on 03 Dec 2023
289 points (87.7% liked)
politics
19238 readers
2102 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
Seriously these fucking morons are going to assist the guy who wants a "complete and total ban on Muslim entering our country...." because they don't like Biden's support for Israel? I understand this is a no win situation but given the choice who's going to be better for Muslims domestically or abroad? Clearly the dem. And on that point I wonder if they think trump would have behaved any differently toward Israel? Spoiler alert.
They have a point though, neither d nor r is going to be "good" for Muslims or Palestinians, our track record sorta proves that out.
Seriously these fucking morons are going to assist the guy who wants a “complete and total ban on Muslim entering our country…” because they don’t like Biden’s support for Israel?
Maybe they figure that when Trump was supporting his Muslim ban, they had one major party on their side.
Instead of zero parties on their side and one party gloating that they have no choice.
load more comments
(10 replies)
load more comments
(16 replies)
load more comments
(1 replies)
I can't wait till we find out in a few months how Russian & Iranian money was actually fueling this.
1000% guaranteed. They've done it before and their doing it again.
Iranian
I find it a tad unbelievable that Iran would fund the president who assassinated one of their top generals with a missile strike.
load more comments
(2 replies)
The guy running against Biden has far worse policies with regard to Muslims. If that guy wins it "proves" America wants the worse policies, potentially causing Democrats to switch to those policies to try to win.
Luckily, this is a publicity stunt that I don't foresee changing any actual votes.
If Biden's stance on Israel is driving away voters, that's just normal. This is one of those important polarizing issues, and he can't avoid accountability, for good or bad. The death count and coverage has guaranteed that.
As for "America wants" language, that doesn't mean anything. Different people have different goals.
load more comments
(3 replies)
load more comments
(14 replies)
Didn't Trump have a travel ban on Muslims at one point?
Edit: yep, he did
that was like the first thing he did
load more comments
(6 replies)
If they succeed in electing Trump, Democrats won't need to reflect about anything because they won't be allowed to run for office anymore.
But the Anti-Biden folks will be able to tell the next generation that they "stood up for their own ideals!" Sure, they won't have prevented any genocide, and they will have put the party into power that is currently trying to set up a fascist theocracy, but they can go to sleep knowing they have personal integrity!
/s
load more comments
(7 replies)
load more comments
(8 replies)
They must want to completely lose Democracy because they aren't getting their way. That's what's in the ballot. There very likely won't BE 2028 election if Rump gets back in.
load more comments
(50 replies)
FTA:
"a reflection of their outrage over President Biden's handling of the Israel-Hamas war."
If that's legit their position, then they have no candidate in 2024. It's not like they can vote for Trump.
That may be.
If Democrats need their votes, they'd best listen.
The DNC will ignore them, then blame someone else when they lose
And they clearly stated that they know trump would be worse short term, but they are hoping this puts long term pressure on democrats to represent their issues more.
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(1 replies)
It's notable that the Republicans have not attempted to court the pro Palestinian voters in reaction to the anger at Biden. Because they are if anything more pro Israel / anti Palestine than the Democrats.
I agree that the Dems are the "only slightly better" party in a few aspects, and they need to do better. But slightly better is still better than the alternative and we need to vote like it.
I use a taxi analogy often when it comes to issues like this. You're on 8th Street and want to get to 1st Street. There are two taxis in front of you a Blue Taxi and a Red Taxi. The Blue Taxi will take you to 4th Street. The Red Taxi will take you to 21st Street before beating you up and leaving you for dead in the gutter.
Which taxi do you take?
Note: "Neither" isn't an option because if you don't choose, then some random people choose for you and shove you in the taxi.
Yes, neither taxi takes you to your destination, but the Blue taxi is a lot easier to recover from and reach your destination than the Red taxi.
Would it be better if you had a taxi that took you to your exact destination? Definitely, but this is where realism meets idealism. In the real world, you rarely have perfect options. You often need to decide which option is closest to perfect for you. In this case, the Democrats/Blue taxi are flawed but are worlds better than the Republicans/Red taxi.
load more comments
(6 replies)
load more comments
(5 replies)
These fucking idiots.
"That Muslim Ban was such a good idea and concentration camps at the border, we want to see what the orange one will do next!"
load more comments
(1 replies)
Morons.
I will never ever understand minorities that vote this way. I get people who are like me voting conservative, I don't but I get their self-interest pov. You are literally voting for people who want you deported. They have made that crystal clear.
load more comments
(16 replies)
Russian money hard at work.
Yeah sorry these people are idiots and should be ignored. We are in a really dangerous position right now where we could still fall to fascism and need every blue vote we can.
Do they honestly think that a Republican or Trump (who banned people from Muslim countries) aren't gonna ban them too?
load more comments
(9 replies)
Yeah that worked real well for the people that didn't vote for Hillary because sanders that shafted by the DNC. DNC never learned their lesson and Trump winning again I doubt they will learn.
load more comments
(5 replies)
Pro-Trump muslims. That's just great. So Trump gets voted in and instead of having a president ask IDF to spare as many civilians as they can, there will be a president who asks IDF to kill as many muslims as they can. While openly assassinating Iranian generals with precision missile strikes.
Absolutely shocked that Muslim fundies hate most of the same people Christian fundies do, yet are too stupid to realize the leopard will come for them eventually.
Shocked I say.
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(70 replies)
Muslim ideology doesn't exactly fit with democracy so it makes sense for them to embrace radical extremism. Same goes for most religions.
load more comments
(1 replies)
These people are stupid. Short-sighted generation that can't see past next month. They're not going to be changing anything, just making sure worse for no reason and giving conservatives more time to get the anti-minority establishment further embedded in everyday culture.
and the Democrats will have to consider whether they want our votes or not.
This thread indicates not.
Centrist Democrats have never considered that a party is obligated to represent people whose votes it needs.
load more comments
(38 replies)
Everyone in the comments focusing on literally only this election and ignoring what they said in their reasoning.
Yes they understand if Trump wins it will be worse in the next 4 years. They’re hoping that the democrats realize that putting a candidate just slightly less evil isn’t good enough anymore and they actually need to win votes instead of saying “we support marginally less genocide then the republicans” and that being good enough.
Not saying that’s going to fully work out, but people acting likes that’s crazy aren’t seeing the full picture. At a certain point the democratic establishment needs to be punished for its bullshit lesser of two evils otherwise it’ll continue to do it. Is now the best time? Maybe not but thats a much more in depth analysis than just reacting “oh they must love Trump then!?”
Punishing the lesser of two evils by rewarding the greater evil isn't going to lead in the direction you want it to.
load more comments
(13 replies)
Yes, because that worked out so well last time a block of Dems threw a fit and decided not to vote. The party definitely learned a lesson and would never do something like 2016 again, right?
It literally is crazy. It's psychotic to think that the party would change their mind about the system that holds them in power after another 4 years of Trump, assuming we even get to have a real election again at all. Project 2025 anyone? It's psychotic to think that all the harm that will come from another 4 years of Trump, now with a grudge, nothing left to lose, and a playbook of how to not be stopped is somehow worth the hope that Dems will change their mind. You know what made the party pick Biden in 2020? The four years of hell before it. You know what will guarantee a "moderate" Dem as the only option in perpetuity? Another 4 years of Trump. Allowing him to win doesn't move the party left, it moves them right to try and get people who actually fucking vote from the middle to move over. The closest we ever came to an actually left president was after 8 years of a moderate Dem.
load more comments
(4 replies)
load more comments
(6 replies)
Yup, they're about as dumb as the Sanders or bust people.
They want change then vote/volunteer in the damn primary, volunteer to get rid of the first past the post bullshit.
Doing this, this is just 2016 levels of fucking stupid.
load more comments
(2 replies)
view more: next ›