this post was submitted on 23 Jul 2023
4 points (100.0% liked)

Blahaj Lemmy Meta

2327 readers
2 users here now

Blåhaj Lemmy is a Lemmy instance attached to blahaj.zone. This is a group for questions or discussions relevant to either instance.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Edit - This is a post to the meta group of Blåhaj Lemmy. It is not intended for the entire lemmyverse. If you are not on Blåhaj Lemmy and plan on dropping in to offer your opinion on how we are doing things in a way you don't agree with, your post will be removed.

==

A user on our instance reported a post on lemmynsfw as CSAM. Upon seeing the post, I looked at the community it was part of, and immediately purged all traces of that community from our instance.

I approached the admins of lemmynsfw and they assured me that the models with content in the community were all verified as being over 18. The fact that the community is explicitly focused on making the models appear as if they're not 18 was fine with them. The fact that both myself and one a member of this instance assumed it was CSAM, was fine with them. I was in fact told that I was body shaming.

I'm sorry for the lack of warning, but a community skirting the line trying to look like CSAM isn't a line I'm willing to walk. I have defederated lemmynsfw and won't be reinstating it whilst that community is active.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] ProfessorZhu@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 year ago (8 children)

I guess Trans Littles can just go fuck off then? One of the biggest Trans comics artist is openly a little. Why are we in the business of regulating what consenting adults do?

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] copygirl@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (13 children)

I think both instance admins have a valid stance on the matter. lemmynsfw appears to take reports very seriously and if necessary does age verification of questionable posts, something that likely takes a lot of time and effort. Blahaj Lemmy doesn't like the idea of a community that's dedicated to "adults that look or dress child-like". While I understand the immediate (and perhaps somewhat reactionary) concern that might raise, is this concern based in fact, or in emotion?

Personally I'm in the camp of "let consenting adults do adult things", whether that involves fetishes that are typically thought of as gross, dressing up in clothes or doing activities typically associated with younger ages, or simply having a body that appears underage to the average viewer. As the lemmynsfw admin mentioned, such persons have the right to lust and be lusted after, too. That's why, as a society, we decided to draw the line at 18 years old, right?

I believe the concern is not that such content is not supposed to exist or be shared, but rather that it's collected within a community. And I think the assumption here is that it makes it easy for "certain people" to find this content. But if it is in fact legal, and well moderated, then is there a problem? I don't believe there is evidence that seeing such content could change your sexual preferences. On the other hand, saying such communities should not exist could send the wrong message, along the lines of "this is weird and should not exist", which might be what was meant with "body shaming".

I'm trying to make sense of the situation here and possibly try to deescalate things, as I do believe lemmynsfw approach to moderation otherwise appears to be very much compatible with Blahaj Lemmy. Is there a potential future where this decision is reconsidered? Would there be some sort of middle-ground that admins from both instances could meet and come to an understanding?

[–] chumbalumber@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Reminds me of a lot of the debates around kink at pride/ddlg kink stuff. The latter is really not my thing and makes me uncomfortable, but I recognise that that's a personal thing between me and my partners that I can't, and shouldn't, police among others.

There's also ethical debates to be had on porn in places like Lemmy/pornhub/etc. -- we can't know that the person has consented to being posted, or that they have recourse to get it taken down and stop it being spreaded if they do not.

Then there's the realpolitik of, regardless of ethics, whether it's better to have porn of this type in visible, well moderated communities, or whether it's better to try to close off ethically dubious posting.

It's one I don't really have squared off in my head quite yet. Similarly with kink at pride; I've read about the historic importance of kinksters and recognise that, but at the same time I want there to be a space where queer kids can be involved with pride without being exposed to kink. Is that just prudish social norms talking? Idk; I'm still working it through.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (12 replies)
[–] kardum@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (18 children)

the same community (adorableporn) is also on reddit btw with 2.2m subscribers.

i have no grand moral opinion on this type of content. for me it is the same as femboy content for example, where people also push for a youthful, girly aesthetic.

as long as the content is made by consenting verified adults, i don't care.

it's like adults cosplaying with japanese school uniforms or calling your partner "mommy" or "daddy".

probably not the best move in terms of sexual morals for sure, in the grand scheme of things tho this is just how people express their sexuality i guess.

load more comments (18 replies)
[–] blazera@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What even was the community, I dont see any focused on CSAM, or appearing as it. Was it small breasts?

[–] ass_destroyer@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

According to the comments on lemmynsfw it was adorableporn

[–] blazera@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So is this guy lying? There's nothing about making them look under 18. At least what I can see from my instance, it seems focused on being very softcore, not even a focus on small girls. In fact the latest post I see is from a milf account.

Honestly without anyone citing the actual post in question it's literally impossible for any of us to make up our own minds on the content. All we have is one admin's word vs another. I haven't personally seen anything even approaching CSAM-adjacent anywhere on lemmynsfw, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. At the same time it does kinda seem like the blahaj admins wanted to defederate anyway and finally found a convenient scapegoat -- it seems odd that one would completely defederate an entire instance over a single post. So I really have no idea what to think.

[–] paris@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (13 children)

For anyone wondering, this is lemmynsfw's take on the situation.

On a personal level, the vibes are off. Their defense seems really defensive and immediately moves to reframe the situation as body shaming. There's a difference between an adult who looks underage posting porn of themselves and a community dedicated to porn of adults who look underage. Reducing the latter down to body shaming seems like unfair framing to me.

[–] Thorny_Thicket@sopuli.xyz 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Did you check the community in question? I'm quite suprised to hear one could think that's csam. To me it looks just like your typical low-effort onlyfans content. None of the models even looked "barely legal" but more like well over 20 in most cases.

[–] noisehound@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The community in question listed "child-like" in their sidebar until after this defederation. Gross.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] magnetosphere@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Yeah. I don’t think they’re sincerely trying to “be inclusive”. I think they’re just trying to misuse progressive concepts to their own advantage.

They know full well what they’re doing. The fact that it isn’t legally CP is just a technicality.

[–] ocasta@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I think it’s really strange to call that a technicality. Adults with babyfaces and braces doing porn (which appears to be what this was about, as far as I can tell) is worlds apart from children being abused. Calling that a “technicality” is like saying the difference between a slasher movie and a snuff film is a “technicality.” People who watch slasher movies arent actually wanting to see snuff films deep down inside. And people who find adults with babyfaces attractive arent actually lusting after kids deep down inside.

load more comments (5 replies)
load more comments (11 replies)
[–] scarabic@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

was fine with them

That’s surprising since their rules say that not even fictive under-18 content is allowed:

Posting content involving any person who is under 18 is strictly forbidden. This includes real, drawn, and fictional content.

load more comments
view more: next ›