this post was submitted on 25 Dec 2023
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[–] southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 179 points 11 months ago (7 children)

Aight, I enjoy the joke too.

However! I encourage people to remember that grandpa joe is not a faker in the world he's from!

Since the movie is what most peeps remember, and where the memes usually come from, the first thing to remember is that it's a musical.

Musicals, by the established rules of the overall genre, do not reflect reality at all times. Even mostly dramatic musicals like Man of LaMancha break some reality in order to function as musicals. Take the scene with the ruffians and "Dulcinea" as an example.

Second, the movie. Willy Wonka and the chocolate factory is essentially a fantasy piece. You've got the Oompa Loompas as prime evidence of that. Orange skinned humanoids that do not exist in the real world (jokes aside). Many things in the chocolate factory break the laws of physics or otherwise bend reality. There's geese laying golden eggs, ffs.

Third, the theme of the movie isn't actually torturing children. The theme of the movie is the redemptive and uplifting power of dreams. That's achieved by the journey of Charlie getting his golden ticket and everything in his life getting better.

Grandpa Joe hasn't been laying there in bed faking it (though, in movie, there's never anything about the grandparents being unable to move or walk at all, they're just frail and weak).

He is in his eighties or nineties.

What gets him up and dancing isn't that he was faking and forgot to, it's joy.

GJ is transformed by joy, by happiness. His grandson has, through luck or destiny, gotten the golden ticket to a brighter, better life! This doesn't trick Joe into forgetting his infirmity. It gives him the joy to overcome it.

Joe's transformation, rejuvenation, is because he is so filled with joy that his grandson will have a new life, that it changes him into the grandfather he wished he could be. Don't forget that he had sacrificed his one real pleasure to give Charlie a chance at that.

But, look, I know that the grandpajoehate is ostensibly a meme. It's a joke poking fun at the very musical rules that allow a bed-bound person to magically be cured in the first place. But it never acknowledges the fact that his spontaneous rejuvenation is magic, and that the magic is the magic of love.

In a cynical world, we believe that love is not transformative because the real world grinds us down. But love can be transformative for us too. We just have to be willing to let it work.

[–] VonCesaw@lemmy.world 101 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I know its you Joe you cant fool me

[–] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 29 points 11 months ago

With that fucking coke nail and all

[–] khan_shot_1st@lemmy.world 35 points 11 months ago

This was nice. Thanks for taking the time to write this up!

[–] CaptnNMorgan@reddthat.com 5 points 11 months ago

Hmmm, I just thought he was depressed.

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[–] epyon22@programming.dev 96 points 11 months ago (5 children)

Are we bringing the fuck grampa Joe community to Lemmy?

[–] Seraph@kbin.social 44 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

By being on the Internet you agree we all hate Grandpa Joe. It seems redundant.

[–] SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I always think the reason they never got out of bed is they had a 24/7 old person orgy, so the other three were always fucking grandpa Joe.

[–] AnonWyo@startrek.website 8 points 11 months ago

We know what sort of porn you watch.

Also, username checks out.

[–] BruceTwarzen@kbin.social 3 points 11 months ago

Yes please, we need this place to me more like le epic narwhal beacon place

[–] sebinspace@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

I mean.. you gonna do it?

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[–] danc4498@lemmy.world 60 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Depression sucks. Grandpa Joe just needed a pick me up.

[–] streetfestival@lemmy.ca 49 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Also - and I'm only familiar with the 1971 film version with Gene Wilder - Grandpa Joe is clearly the only friend, companion, and available adult in Charlie's life who he can talk to. His mother is too busy from working to support the family. He doesn't have friends or money to spend. And Grandpa Joe does show some guilt and awareness about not contributing more to the family. He has that great line when Charlie tries to give him a nickel for tobacco: "When a loaf of bread looks like a banquet, I've no right buying tobacco."

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[–] Denalduh@lemmy.world 32 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Fuck grandpa Joe. That is all.

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[–] Blackout@kbin.social 25 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I would have done the same thing. Being lazy is cool.

[–] VulKendov@reddthat.com 16 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] ElBarto@sh.itjust.works 2 points 11 months ago
[–] SuckMyWang@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago

Yeh. People give grandpa Joe a hard time but what about the other 3 grifters. And let’s not forget the kid. He could have easily worked 16hours a day in a coal mine and instead treats his family like shit by buying chocolate for himself out of shameless greed

[–] hex_m_hell@slrpnk.net 23 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)
[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago (1 children)

And seriously harmed children by bringing them into a workplace that he knew was not safe.

It should bother any decent person what he did. If they really did suffer from animal attacks he could have provided them with weapons. Hell, I am reasonable. He could have sold them guns and made a profit. "Ok peeps, work in my factory and I will pay you. You can use that money to buy stuff that will kill those animals"

[–] Emerald@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

There's actually an interesting deep dive into this.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0jbGyLayKjE

[–] Deiv@lemmy.ca 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Weren't they paid in chocolate, their preferred currency?

[–] meliaesc@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago

I have a hunch that it wasn't their preferred currency.

In the first edition of Dahl's novel, Oompa Loompas were Black pygmies Willy Wonka imported from "the deepest and darkest part of the African jungle," according to Jeremy Treglown's Roald Dahl: A Biography. In 1970, the NAACP issued a statement expressing concerns about the racist portrayal of the Oompa Loompas in light of the then-upcoming film. Dahl himself showed sympathy for their stance, and re-imagined them in the 1973 edition as having "golden-brown hair" and "rosy-white" skin.

Despite that change in description, the Oompa Loompas' exploitative origin remained. Wonka smuggled them from their home to work at his factory. They worked tirelessly in exchange for cocoa beans, even as the chocolatier earned real money for their labor. They were prisoners restricted to areas inside the factory. In Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Willy Wonka learned the tribal language when negotiating a deal with the Oompa Loompas, but he was proud that "they all speak English now."

[–] nomecks@lemmy.world 23 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Does nobody know that all the grandparents were in their ninties?

[–] Th4tGuyII@kbin.social 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

Sure - but if Joe's got enough energy to fuck around in a chocolate factory with his grandson, then he's got enough energy to work part-time to help his desperately poor family

[–] Laticauda@lemmy.ca 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Have you ever actually met someone that old? Mustering up a whole day's worth of energy can take them out for the rest of the month.

[–] Th4tGuyII@kbin.social 2 points 11 months ago (12 children)

Yeah, I have - and the ones that could walk were constantly having to sit down, not doing bloody jigs like Joe did upon learning about the Golden Ticket.

Grandpa Joe has significantly more energy than his peers, that much I can tell - and the fact he let his poor family suffer rather than put that energy to use working even just a day a week is part of why I hate Grandpa Joe

[–] Laticauda@lemmy.ca 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

My grandma could have mustered a single jig and one day of walking in her 90s. She definitely would not have been able to work a part time job. I think you just want an excuse to hate grandpa Joe, so you invent one even though on proper scrutiny it doesn't hold up to reality. But you don't need to justify hating someone, you're allowed to just hate them for no good reason. Instead of throwing all old people under the bus for the sake of hating Joe, just let the hate flow through you without needing to find a reason for it.

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[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

That's not really how that works

One day of basically just walking around like a tourist isn't quite the same as a 9-5 at even low intensity jobs

Also, he's probably not able to find work, it's the 60s-70s in the UK and Joe only ever worked at Wonka's, odds are he doesn't have the qualifications to work for anyone else, and anyone he might be able to are probably covered by the VERY intense NC order Wonka probably made his workers sign after the breach of his IP.

[–] DosDude@retrolemmy.com 2 points 11 months ago

In the United Kingdom, and therefore Wales, where Roald Dahl is from had an old age pension for all of Dahl's life. So I don't think forcing old people to work to death is the point. Blaming old pension accessible people for not working is the same as blaming children for not working in my opinion.

They've probably worked all their life and paid taxes for it. They deserve the rest.

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

How does that make sense? People back then had a kid in their teens.

[–] Exusia@lemmy.world 23 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Wait do we have a c/grandpajoehate

[–] 7u5k3n@lemmy.world 16 points 11 months ago

Be the change you want to see in the world!

[–] MrJameGumb@lemmy.world 19 points 11 months ago

He said he was going to give up tobacco! What else do you people want from him?!?!

[–] Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world 15 points 11 months ago

Let's also remember that Willy Wonka fired all his workers and replaced them with slaves, in the original draft of the book they were people taken from Africa, so pretty much resembles slavery verbatim.

I'm not going to go too in depth with this because there's a whole video already breaking it down in entirety (you can find it here.

[–] BanjoShepard@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Fuck Grandpa Joe and all, but the guy in Saving Private Ryan who stands on the stairs while his squad mate is being killed just inside the door usually gets my vote for biggest piece of shit in cinema history.

[–] Ultragramps@lemmy.blahaj.zone 31 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

This sounds like a moral position until actually having one’s life threatened. There’s no reason to give bravery credit to a statement. That scene showed the paralysis effect of our brain, the ENTIRE POINT is that he was unable to save his friend. Same point is referenced multiple times in the book, and once more(without nominal reference) in the series. Spielberg and Hanks saved their audience of most of the visible anguish and tears in the interwoven interviews. Honestly, the author of the book saves the audience from details, too. It was all THAT BAD.
So.
The folks who said it “wasn’t that bad” and “Hillary evil”, nearly in the same breath, have an accessible platform with an audience that can presume engagement (including purchasing). Jones even attacked parents of murdered children with his newfound power. Confirming that infamous line about absolute (in his small pond) power: it corrupts absolutely.

[–] asteriskeverything@lemmy.world 14 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Idk how we got from saving private Ryan to Alex Jones but I enjoyed the ride. Seriously though, thanks for the necessary context and details!

[–] Ultragramps@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Honestly I heard one of my nieces or nephews in my head saying “So what?” because that’s their thing lately and the tangent fell freely from my brainmeats.

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[–] BleatingZombie@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I think you missed the point of that scene

[–] blanketswithsmallpox@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

Everyone thinks they're better than those put regularly in high stress real life and death scenarios.

Nobody really understands it until it happens to them. Unfortunately it's the nature of the human brain.

Everyone thinks a panic attack can be pushed through with sheer willpower too. They also don't understand the difference between garden variety anxiety and a full blown panic attack.

[–] SOB_Van_Owen@lemm.ee 5 points 11 months ago

Yeah, maybe. Though what if Grandpa Joe is chronically ill with waxing and waning debility. There are lots of folks in that boat. Maybe he was just having a very good week. One of the chief complaints I hear from friends that are so stricken is that when they are having an ok day, and are out doing something important or essential or even fun, they are seen by some dillweed that takes it as proof they are a lazy, shiftless malingerer.

[–] Teon@kbin.social 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Why does Spiderman have a boner in the 2nd picture???

[–] WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

Don't kink shame.

[–] GarytheSnail@programming.dev 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

Dude you're gonna be really disappointed when you finally see a real boner

[–] HurlingDurling@lemm.ee 2 points 11 months ago

Seriously, I would have so much preferred the boy to tell his grandpa Joe not to come since he is always so sick, and take his mom or dad instead

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