I mean, honestly, this sounds like a good thing, because the system works. Isn't it kind of the point of the fediverse that if you don't like someone else's rules, you can do your own thing? They aren't beholden to your rules, and you aren't beholden to theirs either. That sounds to me like a great system where no one group of people or opinions can exert control over everyone else.
this post was submitted on 15 Jun 2023
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This is honestly the only major issue I have with the Fediverse. Most of my Reddit/social media posts are related to three or so niche interests. My first Mastodon account was on the central hub for one interest that later defederated with the central hub for another interest. Not being able to interact with 1/3rd of the people I want to interact with just defeats the whole point of joining these kinds of platforms. Moderators just carving out a chunk of the Fediverse for their users is just unacceptable.
Moderators just carving out a chunk of the Fediverse for their users is just unacceptable.
The Fediverse is made up of independent websites, and the people who operate those websites have freedom of association.
Full stop.
join
a
smaller
instance
Right, but how is it any different than half the users on a subreddit leaving and starting their own? People will always get together in groups and will always naturally begin to despise one another for whatever reason.
It sucks, but it’s just the way it is. If people don’t want to interact with one another, there’s no point in forcing them to do so.
It's different because if people leave and start a new subreddit, you can still visit, subscribe to, comment on, etc. that new subreddit.
everyone who signed up as smaller instances is laughing right now.
kbin.social will also be defederated from beehaw.org, sooner or later.
After all, it has open registration policy and many users too.
Uh.. that's unfortunate because many will just interpret it as federation being bad and will go back to reddit preaching against fedi.
That being said it could also be a reason for admins to have conversations about how to deal with these migrations and which moderation tools they need.
If they block kbin.social, will kbin.social users still be able to read posts on beehaw but not post or interact with them?
Servers defederating themselves from others with policies they don't agree with is pretty common, especially if those policies are considered problematic. But I don't know what to think about the fact I can't see Beehaw mods specifying any particular instances of issues stemmed from users of those two severs, and it seems like the only criteria for defederating was the size of those two servers.
But I guess they have the freedom to make whatever rules they want for their own sever.
From what I have read it was about the difficulty moderating such a large userbase which is perfectly reasonable. The great thing about Lemmy is that anyone who disagrees can start their own server and run it however they want.
Yeah, I have no issues with how they choose to run their instance.
Bummer :( bad actors ruining it for everyone.
So what does this mean for lemmy.world users? Can we still seamlessly see beehaw communities but not post/comment?
As for beehaw users, I assume we and our communities simply do not exist, right?
The content of an instance is copied to another instance as soon as users request it and if both instances are federated
As for beehaw users, I assume we and our communities simply do not exist, right?
Don't say "we". We don't know who you are unless we hover on your username and I guess mobile users cannot even do it anyway.
we can still see and interact with both. Ernest has not defederated with them at this time so we should have few issues. As a community on this instance we need to use this platform in good faith to assure we arent banned/defederated with
When you say "we" do you mean lemmy.world folks? I see you're from kbin 🤔 who is Ernest?
This is why we need instances to be displayed along the username lol
I signed up for Lemmy.World because that was the only one open a few days ago. Does that mean I need to create a separate account on Beehaw to view their stuff now? Why does this stuff have to be so complicated? Is Lemmy actually a viable Reddit alternative or not?
It does. But just don't bother.
Beehaw will die off now that it's walled itself off, and replacement communities in the rest of the fediverse will replace it.
The system is built to be resilient to stuff like this.
That is the way I look at it too. Beehaw has decided to withdraw from the main network and slowly become just a small local bbs.
Okay this is what I've gathered so far, someone please correct me, Lemmy is one type of instance on the fediverse when they were federated with beehaw they would see beehaw posts and vice versa. This is no longer the case, as far as I understand it you can still go to beehaw and create an account to browse it but you won't have access from your Lemmy account. IMHO this makes sense to me, it's like an entire sub going private.
Beehaw is an instance of Lemmy with a bunch of subs inside it. So it's not like a sub going silent. It's a big chunk of the Lemmy user base and their subs being cut off from a couple other large chunks of the user base and their subs (and vice versa), if I understand correctly.
Sorry I should've clarified, but that was the closest equivalent to reddit I thought of.
You know how some subreddits would ban you if you posted in another one? That's basically all this is. We're on lemmy.world which is less guarded, so we're lumped in with troublemakers.
Just like with reddit, the solution is to make a new account without affiliation to the defederated groups. There's a bajillion smaller lemmys out there that will likely never get defederated, and it makes the most sense to have one of those be your home vs the largest instances, now that we can see this kind of problem will occur.
The beehaw admins have stated their hopeful end goal would be a federation whitelist, rather than the current blacklist format. So even if you were to make you own / join a smaller instance it seems like beehaw's entire goal is to be walled off from most instances.
That is a very good point. I'm such a situation the only two choices are to make their community your home and play by their rules (what many of us just left Reddit over) or ignore it and interact with the content and communities you can.
okay by their rules (what many of us just left Reddit over)
People are leaving Reddit over their moderation rules? I thought the CEO did something with the API.
But I mean, yeah, people who have compatible instance rules will federate and the people on those instances will have agreed to those rules. I think you might be overestimating how restrictive typical rules are, unless you think transphobia being called "not okay" is too restrictive.
Are Beehaw some sort of gatekeepers? I mean if you don’t want any interaction outside of your own instance at all because you can’t handle it, why even create an instance on an federated network?
They advertise themselves as a safe space.
being safe and being open are somewhat detrimental to each other.
They choose to be less open, to be more safe.
Fine by me, but I'd expect them to turn into a LGBTQIA+ (is that the current one?) echo chamber before long.
And maybe I'll be wrong, and that'll be fine too.
LGBTQIA+ (is that the current one?)
feeling edgy today are we
LGBTQIA+ (is that the current one?)
It's somewhat ironic that this is just the sort of statement that beehaw admins are fed up of moderating away.
Yeah I've definitely noticed a running set of themes in the posts that are most critical of this move and it's making me much more sympathetic to Beehaw's decision.
Assholes don't like being told they're not invited to the party. And the reasons they're not invited are... Well, things start to get recursive at this point.
Funny to me that people like you always complain about "safe spaces" in the same breath that you make it clear you can't handle something as irrelevant to you as someone's sexuality. That's projecting fragility. These aren't "safe spaces," they're just only allowing decent people who don't flip their shit when they find out what two consenting adults want to do with their bodies.
some of the first posts i see on kbin from other instances are about a major defederation lol. not ideal since this is happening when the fediverse is growing... but I suppose this is the intent behind the fediverse.
If you are a subreddit drama enjoyer this exact sort of thing only adds more appeal to the fediverse.
Nah, don't worry about it, beehaw's always been shit
Their stance on some things is maybe a bit too drastic for some, but they already have one of the largest communities for certain topics like gaming (at least last I checked), so we may lose out on the content that would help people stay long-term, which is sad.
People should stop looking at where the biggest community is. Are you an actor or a spectator? Start creating content in your own instance. This is what killed reddit, too much spectators, all sharing the same on-liner jokes. Do you have an interesting take about a videogame? Then share it. Write things down.
Reading that announcement felt like the beginning of Mortal Engines when the small cities started rapiding from London.
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