this post was submitted on 28 Jul 2023
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Hello all, this is the first post in a series of posts I'll be making weekly to drum up some diverse discussion relating to all different aspects of gaming. I figured I would start with what I know, and so the first topic is thus: roguelike games. (If you think any of the below description is wrong or misleading, let me know - that's part of the discussion!)

The name of this genre is derived from the game Rogue, released in 1980. The exact definition of a roguelike has been a topic of discussion for a long time, but the core tenets are usually agreed upon to be random/procedural generation and permanent death (no saving and continuing a run, you have to start over). Many roguelikes have an additional increased focus on collecting items and assembling a "build" over the course of a run. A "pure" roguelike is often claimed to have no meta-progression (that is, no procedural unlocks) and focus more on the journey than the destination - seeing how far you can get, or how high a score you can achieve, rather than reaching a distinct victory condition (not that these games don't have victory conditions, but that it isn't the end-all-be-all). The secondary term "roguelite" is often brought out to describe games that deviate from this. Additionally, the term "traditional roguelike" is sometimes employed to indicate a more strict adherence to the older style of this genre, with grid-based dungeon crawling and high complexity. Ultimately, as with a lot of genres, pinning down a 100% ironclad definition is near impossible, but most people that like this type of game could tell you the general "vibe" at a glance.

Here are some questions and subtopics that I encourage people to discuss:

  • What are some of your favorite examples of roguelike games?
  • What roguelike games do you think stand out in terms of defying the conventions of the genre?
  • Do you find there to be a meaningful difference between the usage of "roguelike" and "roguelite" nowadays? Which do you prefer? Where does the "traditional roguelike" fit into this?
  • Do you continue to play roguelike games after reaching the "end" / reaching 100% completion? Why, or why not?
  • What other genre do you most often enjoy seeing paired with roguelike?
  • Is any game with procedural generation and a run-based structure a roguelike, or is there more to it? Where do you personally draw the line?
  • What have been some of your best runs across all roguelike games? What's been memorable?
  • Are there any upcoming roguelike games you're excited for?

Also feel free to bring up anything you like related to the topic! If you have suggestions for future discussion topics, leave them in the suggestion thread.

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[–] sigmaklimgrindset@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I don’t know if it’s my favourite, but Crypt of the Necrodancer is a roguelike/lite is one I still play at least once a week since I bought it in 2017, and it’s not one I see mentioned that often.

I never gravitate towards roguelikes tbh, but I ADORE rhythm games. Necrodancer really hooked me in with it’s variation on the rhythm gameplay loop, adding complexity that doesn’t seem arbitrary or frustratingly difficult (at least to me). Playing through the game with the different characters you unlock has yet to get boring after almost 6 years.

And of course, the absolute BANGER of a soundtrack helps a lot (thank you Danny Baranowsky and team). The remixed Zelda soundtrack they did for Cadence of Hyrule is also amazing, and I would sell every organ I have to be one of the 20 people with a vinyl press of it.

I’ve played the other roguelikes everyone likes (Slay the Spire, Gungeon, Isaac, Hades, etc) but nothing has really stuck to me as much as vanilla Necrodancer.

[–] TheSpookiestUser@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'll go ahead and start off with responding to some of the points:

What are some of your favorite examples of roguelike games?

All-time favorites have to be Slay the Spire and Hades. StS was one of the cornerstones of deckbuilding roguelikes while still remaining one of the sleekest of all of them; mechanics fit together perfectly, with each loss leaving you working out how you screwed up rather than cursing the game for unfairness. Hades I like for entirely different reasons - it absolutely oozes style, with excellent presentation in terms of art direction, music, and copious dialogue. The rougelike nature of the game is woven directly into its narrative in a way I find very satisfying.

Enter the Gungeon should also be noted as one of the few games I've 100%ed. Although it has some flaws, the sheer amount of combinatory item synergies (both actual mechanical synergies noted by the UI and otherwise) gives it great replay value while not ballooning to absurd levels ala The Binding of Isaac (which, while still great, can be daunting in its scope).

Do you continue to play roguelike games after reaching the “end” / reaching 100% completion? Why, or why not?

Personally no, unless there is some sort of prestige mechanic that adds new challenges on successive runs (though one may consider beating all prestige levels part of 100%ing); I am still grinding out Ascension levels on both Slay the Spire and Monster Train. I find satisfaction in finishing a game that actually has a win state, and often lose interest after it's been achieved. Enter the Gungeon was one of the few exceptions to this, although by the time I had truly finished the game I was already very close to the full 100%.

Are there any upcoming roguelike games you’re excited for?

Hades II, for obvious reasons of course. Other smaller titles on my radar include Wizard with a Gun, whose demo I played and (while rough around the edges) had an engaging and swift core gameplay loop with metaprogression (though one must question the fuzzy distinction between a roguelike and a run-based game in general, or if there is one at all) and Dungeons & Degenerate Gamblers, a tiny but funny little deckbuilding roguelike that smashes together a lot of different card games and concepts for a wacky time.

[–] Xylinna@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I have hundreds of hours in Slay the Spire of both IOS and Steam. Phenomenal game.

I struggled with getting past the first boss in Hades but I loved the art direction, story, and voice acting. I will probably give Hades II a try as I am sure there are a lot of improvements.

[–] TheSpookiestUser@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Steam tells me I've clocked 297 hours into StS. I've only barely reached I think A17 or 18 with Silent, ~A15 with Defect, and only 1-2 for the other two. Still got a ways to go!

If you really like StS, I can recommend Downfall, a fan expansion for the game on Steam. It is not as polished, and the mechanics aren't quite as tightly wound, but it offers a whole lot of very novel new mechanics and characters as well as an entire new mode where you play as a Boss working your way downward instead of the reverse.

[–] Xylinna@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

I tried Downfall and I like it. Sadly it does not really work on Steam Deck last time I tried.

[–] aesopjah@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Dungeon crawl stone soup. Vampire summoner or octopus berserker?

[–] TheSpookiestUser@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] aesopjah@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

Thanks for adding the link!

[–] goof@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

My top three, in no particular order, are:

[–] GreenAlex@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

I love roguelites and the genre melding you can do with them. I've been searching for one that competes with Risk of Rain 2 for me. I've played all the big ones but none have had the same staying power.

The biggest bummer for me is Dead Cells. For most of the run, I slaughter. First two original bosses I can pretty consistently no-hit. Then I get to the hand of the king and die in about 5 seconds every. Single. Time. It's 100% a skill issue but I feel it just asks so much of me compared to the rest of the game on the same difficulty, and I'm only on boss cell 1. I've even gone I to the training mode vs him and his tells paired with my time to respond just have not clicked.

There's also Enter the Gungeon. I also have struggled with it but actively plan to get back into it to work through it.

Lastly, shutout to Dicey Dungeons. It's lesser known and I think everyone should play it.

[–] curryandbeans@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

I started playing roguelikes with flash Binding of Isaac I bought for 99p in a steam sale, pre-Wrath of the Lamb. I'm still playing Rebirth and its expansions well over a decade later. I'd describe it as the perfect game. Why it shines as opposed where other great roguelites don't is because of how the items interact with each other. The interaction is key. It's still pure joy to walk into a room and absolutely melt everything in a second because of a synergy you've never seen. And now I think about it, what really makes the roguelike genre a favourite of mine is where every run is a challenge from the game: break me. I'd point at Noita as another game with this philosophy. Being given a random selection of tools and trying to cobble them together into something unstoppable.

[–] zecg@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

My top picks are Synthetik, Dead Cells and Nova Drift

[–] Boiglenoight@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Synthetik is so much fun. I don't know many people who play it though or know of it.

[–] SadTrain@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

I've been having a lot of fun in Halls of Torment lately. The updates and patch notes are promising for an early access game.

Then I play a TON of Slay the Spire.

[–] Lord_Logjam@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Hades is potentially my favourite game of all time. For me to absolutely nails this style of game by perfectly weaving in a compelling narrative to the rogue mechanic. It's also gorgeous with the most ridiculously tight gameplay.

Honourable mention to Enter the Gungeon, haven't seen that mentioned yet. Very fun game.

[–] Boiglenoight@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

No Rogue Legacy love? I played the heck out of that one on both PC and PS4. The 2nd one is good as well, but it hasn't grabbed me quite like the first.

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