this post was submitted on 29 Jul 2023
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Explanations/etymology also appreciated!

For Joe Shmoe, it means a very average or below average person. It's a derivation of the practice of using "shm-" to dismiss something (eg "Practice shmactice. We're already perfect").

And "John Smith" is meant to be the most average name or person imaginable, so they have the "most common" (citation needed) first and last name as well.

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[–] Hubi@feddit.de 94 points 1 year ago (4 children)

In Germany there is "Max Mustermann", which basically translates to Max Template-man. It's the default German name used for templates of official documents like passports and such.

[–] CAPSLOCKFTW@lemmy.ml 45 points 1 year ago

Don't forget Otto Normalverbraucher. Nobody cares about Otto Normalverbraucher.

[–] ValiantDust@feddit.de 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Don't forget his wife, Erika Mustermann, geb. (née) Gabler. She's usually the one used for passports these days. I think there's a whole Mustermann family living in these templates.

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[–] Tschuuuls@feddit.de 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

In German there are also derogatory uses for the forenames "Kevin" and "Otto" for example. Often used to depict not well educated persons that have made extremely stupid decisions/choices.

[–] ndguardian@lemmy.studio 14 points 1 year ago

As someone with a brother named Kevin, I can confirm he’s doing his part to uphold that depiction.

[–] dreadgoat@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I think this one is pretty confined to my region (southwestern USA) but we use Otto as the moniker of a generic stupid person too, but probably for a different reason: Otto is Oblivious to the Obvious

[–] Darukhnarn@feddit.de 8 points 1 year ago

Or for historical context: “der Deutsche Michel” - “the German Michael “

[–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 82 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] ALERT@sh.itjust.works 28 points 1 year ago

spoiled all the fun :)

[–] vis4valentine@lemmy.ml 61 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

In my country (Spanish speaking) we say "Fulano de tal" Fulano is kinda like a template name nobody really is named like that. "De tal" really means something like "from somewhere".

We dont out it on the graves, but we use it as slang for situations where we need to refer to someone generic like "imagine a fulano de tal doing xxxxxxxxxxx".

There are other names like Zutano, Mengano, etc.

Edit: My mom sometimes uses "Miguel Perez". Those 2 are very common first and last names.

[–] beto@lemmy.studio 25 points 1 year ago (2 children)

In Brazil (Portuguese speaking) we also use Fulano de tal. I didn't know it was used in other countries!

We also "José Ninguém" and "Maria Ninguém" to mean someone who's a nobody. It literally means Joseph/Mary (very common names in Brazil) Nobody.

[–] lalo@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 1 year ago

There's also a name that expresses the same feeling of 'Joe Schmoe' in pt-br: 'Zé Roela'

And to expand on Fulano's family, we must not forget Beltrano and Ciclano.

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[–] babi99@lemm.ee 20 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Does this came from arabic influence?

To refer someone without a name or generic name we sometime say Fulan bin Fulan meaning someone the son of someone

[–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

A lot of Spanish words and culture come from Arabic influences, the iberic peninsula was under control of arabs on the VIII century.

[–] jsveiga@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 year ago

Wow! It most certainly came from that!

TIL, thanks! (brazilian here).

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[–] fubo@lemmy.world 46 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

In US legal cases, "John Doe", "Jane Roe", and similar names are used for pseudonymized legal parties.

For instance, the plaintiff in the famous abortion case Roe v. Wade was one Norma McCorvey, identified as "Jane Roe".

A group of unidentified people appearing as plaintiffs or defendants may be called a group of "Does", from the name John Doe.

The words doe and roe both refer to deer, which are common wild animals in North America — and as wild animals, represent an arbitrary unspecified person. A doe is a female deer; and while "roe" can also mean fish eggs, roe deer is a common European species of deer.

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[–] drkt@feddit.dk 35 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

Denmark -

Brian <- A name, but also a slur for people considered 'hillbilly'. Very frequently used against people who drive cheap tuner hatchbacks. Said cars can be referred to as Brian Cars.

Peter Jensen <- Also a name, but it's become notorious in Jutland because it feels like everyone is immediately related to someone with this exact first and last name.

[–] nparkinglot@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 1 year ago

I can’t tell you how much I love that Denmark has hillbillys who drive hatchbacks and are called fuckin’ Brian as a slur.

[–] WaterBottleOnAShelf 7 points 1 year ago

Interesting. In the UK (at least when I was growing up, I haven't lived there for some time) we called doing up shit cars as Barry-ing them. I know in other parts of the country they used the name Ned or Kev to refer to the people that drove those cars.

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[–] zakobjoa@lemmy.world 34 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Germany uses Max/Erika Mustermann – literally Sampleman. It's used for example on official sample pictures of our IDs. Some authorities in erlin have startet to use the gender neutral name Manu Mustermann.

[–] avalokitesha@discuss.tchncs.de 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's the official version, but at least when I talk about some average dude it's way too long and artificial, I don't think the name Mustermann actually exists.

When I think of the most common name to use in casual conversation, I'd probably go for Müller (maybe Peter? Though the first name is probably heavily generation-dependent).

In older publication you may alse find references to "der deutsche Michel" (the german Michel, short for Michael) as a somewhat condescending reference to the average citizen who is very hesitant to adopt new concepts and tech and not always able or willing to understand complex concepts. Often used to remark that a product/idea will not have a chance on the market because "der deutsche Michel" doesn't see the pointor would never pick it up.

Haven't seen that in a while though, I guess Germans have become more open to new stuff :)

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[–] wildeaboutoskar@beehaw.org 23 points 1 year ago (4 children)

We have the phrase 'every Tom, Dick and Harry' which is like that (UK)

If we're talking about a generic person it's usually Mr/s Smith or Mr/s Jones (near Wales)

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[–] Grimlo9ic@kbin.social 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

In the Philippines, it's Juan and Maria dela Cruz, although those have fallen out of use due to the popularity of Western (aka US) culture. Interesting reading about every country's own names for their everyman.

[–] Fenzik@lemmy.ml 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

In the Netherlands there’s “Jan Modaal”, modaal (modal) referring the most commonly occurring value in or peak of a distribution. This name is used often when representing the experience of the most average Dutchman.

It’s especially often used in financial discussions and journalism, like “owning a house is getting further out of reach for Jan Modaal.”

[–] csolisr@communities.azkware.net 14 points 1 year ago

Which correlates nicely with the English expression "your average Joe"!

[–] Pietson@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago

In Belgium we mostly use Jan met de pet ("Jan with the cap")

[–] abbadon420@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

We also have the slur of "sjonnie en anita" when talking about lower class, anti social people, "sjonnie" being the man and "anita" the woman. Both are very common names in older generations, less common in younger generations.

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[–] thebestaquaman@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In Norway we have the stereotypical Norwegians "Ola Nordmann" and "Kari Nordmann". Ola and Kari were quite common names a couple generations ago (not so common now). "Nordmann" literally translates to "Norwegian [person]", but is also a not-too-uncommon last name.

We typically talk about them if we're describing something or some situation and what the stereotypical Norwegian would do/think.

[–] itspcp@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago

"Nordmann" is also a german word. It means "Norseman/Northman" or "Man from the north".

[–] Green_Bay_Guy@lemmy.ml 18 points 1 year ago

In Vietnam, I think it's just most names 😂. Anh Nguyen is probably a good example. Most Vietnamese have the last name Nguyen. The national naming conventions rival that of religious families in the west. Think, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Anh, An, Thanh, and Minh. Women are the same, but named after things considered beautiful, Tuyet, Hong, Pham, Van.

Funny enough, many names aren't always gendered, so I've met a decent amount of couples with the same first and last names. An Thi Nguyen, and An Van Nguyen is a couple that comes to mind. I dont have to worry about doxxing, since I bet that exists over 1000x here.

[–] muttley@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In the UK it is Joe Bloggs

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[–] FourPacketsOfPeanuts@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Some others in the Anglosphere:

Fred Bloggs - no idea where it's from. Related to "bog" as in bog standard maybe?

Tom, Dick and Harry - is ages old. Even as far back as Shakespeare you can see the triplet evolving. "Tom, Dicke, and Francis" : Henry IV, Part I

[–] Robertej92@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I've always heard it as Joe Bloggs. The Bloggs bot is believed to be a derivation of bloke

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[–] alf@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 year ago

In Norway we have “Ola Nordmann” and “Kari Nordmann”. Ola and Kari are pretty common and generic names. Nordmann literally means Norwegian, but can also be used as a last name.

[–] Thorny_Thicket@sopuli.xyz 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In Finnish it's Matti Meikäläinen for male and Maija Meikäläinen for woman. Matti Meikäläinen roughly translates to Matt Myself

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[–] Bjaldr@discuss.tchncs.de 16 points 1 year ago

In the UK for a random guy it's usually Joe Bloggs.

[–] infamousbelgian@waste-of.space 15 points 1 year ago

Flemish talking part of Belgium it is Jan Janssen

[–] wtvr@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 year ago

In Israel it's Plony Almony. Idk why. But it's fun to say

[–] halvdan@beehaw.org 12 points 1 year ago

Sweden: Svensson, although the most common surname is Andersson.

Specifically for Gothenburg - Glenn "everybody is called Glenn in Gothenburg", or older use - Kålle (male) and Ada (female). Not used that often.

[–] LazaroFilm@lemmy.film 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

France: Martin Dupont

But I prefer Dominique Dupont as the first name is both for men and women.

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[–] DieguiTux8623@feddit.it 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

In Italy the template names are "Tizio", "Caio" and "Sempronio" whose origin dates back to the Middle Ages when they were used in legal cases as default names, probably inspired to the Gracchi roman family (Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus and Gaius Sempronius Gracchus). Another common name often used in examples is "Mario Rossi".

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[–] Rachelhazideas@lemm.ee 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Cantonese: 陳大文 (can4 daai6 man4) Japanese: 山田太郎 (yamada taro)

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[–] lichengeese@beehaw.org 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Not to stifle further discussion, but this Wikipedia page has a wealth of examples

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_placeholder_names_by_language

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[–] Addfwyn@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Japan, you usually use "Taro Tanaka" as the goto placeholder name. Tanaka is a very common surname here and it's super easy to write as well (田中). Sato is actually the most common but also a lot harder to write (佐藤). Tanaka is also a very "working class" name, it litearlly means "in the rice field" and most likely comes from families with a background of rice farmers. Taro also a very common given name; there have been quite a few Taro Tanakas throughout history despite being the placeholder name on most forms and the like. Taro, incidentally means "Big/Strong Son".

I am not sure offhand of a female equilvalent, it's usually Taro as the placeholder.

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[–] Matomo@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago

In the Netherlands, it's either "Jan Smit" (both a very common first and last name, but also a local celebrity's name) or "Henk de Vries" which IIRC is the most common name here.

I also vaguely remember some old Dutch forum naming everyone Henk de Vries by default.

[–] 01189998819991197253@infosec.pub 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Jhojho Aboolafya in everywhere in the Middle East I've been.

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[–] randint@feddit.nl 7 points 1 year ago

The "John Smith" in Chinese is 王小明 (pinyin: wang2 xiao3 ming2), the 王 being the family name and 小明 being the given name. The 王 is a very common family name (like Smith), 小, small, is a diminutive prefix often added to nicknames, and 明, bright, is a commonly used character in given name. I should note that this is only used for males and there isn't really a "Jane Smith" for females.

[–] orhtej3@latte.isnot.coffee 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In Poland typically, both officially and informally, one says N. N. (Latin nomen nescio, identity unknown).

[–] Blizzard@lemmy.zip 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What the hell, dude? No one says that. Aren't you thinking of a John Doe?

Polish "John Smith" would be "Jan Kowalski". It is used to refer to an average citizen and also literally means "John Smith".

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[–] kingthrillgore@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago

Back in the day on an old imageboard we used to call anonymous users "Chopped Liver"

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