this post was submitted on 19 Jul 2023
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I’m not trying to start shit, but someone’s gotta ask:
With all the bad experiences itt from owners of both companies products, why not just get a thinkpad or mbp? You can still get socketed everything in the t and p series and eventually there’ll be Linux on the m1&2.
I could see buying framework or s76 if you were getting a good open laptop but at the place both companies products seem to be why not buy a known good computer and donate some money to whatever group is doing the work you wanna see done?
I've worked with both s76 and framework's support and they've been great. Community support for framework is also especially good (for Linux)
MBP are all-soldered these days. Repairability is 0. ThinkPads still have replaceable RAM and SSDs but not motherboards, batteries are expensive if you can even find a genuine one, same with their keyboards. With a Framework, you can get all the parts from the source. They're cheap and trivial to replace. In my book MBPs are simply not an option, ThinkPads are good if you get them off-lease for cheap. Otherwise - Framework.
I just picked two good computers, one that’s pretty modular. How are thinkpad motherboards not replaceable anymore? I was under the impression they have an fru number and everything still…
I haven’t seen any framework modules up on eBay, but maybe I didn’t use the right p/n search.
ThinkPad motherboards are replaceable per se. However it's more work and you have to actually find a board. When I said they're not replaceable I meant easily replaceable, I should have qualified it. Framework's boards are sold directly by Framework. You know what you're getting. There's availability. There's warranty. The replacement is trivial. Thanks to the internally standardised form factor you don't even need the exact board gen to get going. Say if yours dies in 4 years and they no longer make it, a later gen board that fits the chassis will be available as a drop-in replacement.
I had a USB port fail on my 11th gen Intel Framework. They sent me a replacement motherboard along with a link to the instructions for replacing it. It took me under 10 minutes to swap it. It was amazing. Just opening up a ThinkPad these days without breaking a plastic clip could take as much.
What are you gonna do when the framework company goes under or runs out of parts?
Most likely the same as what I would do when Lenovo stops making spare boards for the model I have and I can no longer find any on eBay - bin it.
Except in the case of Framework going under, it's much easier for another manufacturer to release a compatible motherboard since the form factor is published and fairly simple. Similar to why it's easy to replace my desktop's motherboard even when the original one is no longer made. If anything, the current OEM making the motherboards could keep making replacements on the same tooling after Framework is gone, so long as there are people buying them.
I wonder if theres a jlcpcb/pcbway/whatever equivalent for board assembly. Like if you have the gerbers getting boards is easy and cheap but the gcode for pick and place and reflow machines is specific and has spin up costs.
What I’m getting at is: does open sourcing the layouts and boms help?
ThinkPads also have that weird wifi whitelist and proprietary firmware
Totally forgot about that. I typically don't change the WiFi module, but yes.
I didnt hear a lot about negative experiences with both of those companies, do you have any examples?
Altruistic reasons aside there's exactly no good reason to pay a premium for a Framework vs the options you listed. The features they have are all nice-to-have at best, gimmicky at worst. They are honestly over-hyped in Linux circles for the price.
I think one thing that is often overlooked is supporting a good idea. I heard/read often enough that people like the ability to repair or tweak their laptops so maybe this is another reason to buy one. In the hope, that the company delivers more and better in the future.
Yeah I get that. What I’m asking is if you’re not getting a decent modular laptop from either company why not pick a good off the shelf big name laptop with or without modularity and just donate money to the group that’s doing work you like?
That would be another option and a win-win scenario, I like it.
I know this thread is a tad old but I’ve been considering a framework for the family laptop for a while. Problem is stocking and this recent 16 model run also had 13 orders run too. I won’t pay for a unit months in advance. It ruins certain protections from the merchant (like failure to deliver).
Instead I got a thinkpad t480 for like 400 bucks. It will do fine as a laptop mostly used for chrome, paying bills or zoom calls etc.
It's a question worth asking, for sure.