this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2024
120 points (90.0% liked)
Asklemmy
43952 readers
945 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
Search asklemmy π
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- !lemmy411@lemmy.ca: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Okay, as a biologist it really upsets me how that phrase is written off. I did an impromptu half hour lecture for my wife about how significant "the mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell" is,
The mitochondria is what ties everything on this planet together, it's the one thing that ties all life together, it is the exact same mechanism in plants as it is in animals, it takes the same ingredients and does the same function, and comes from the same origin.
There is no chain in our DNA that codes for the mitochondria, it exists outside of our DNA, it has no relationship with our DNA, it only fuels reading DNA and it's decoding and replication, but it isn't included in our genetics. It replicates itself, it exists as a separate entity, and it acts as the functioning unit for all energy within the cell.
It would be like if when a child was born their lungs were provided by an outside source and had the same genetic material as everyone else's lungs. Oh and puppy lungs, and crab lungs, and avocado lungs, and grass lungs, every single living thing on this plant has the same lung genetic material. And it has no clue that it serves this function, all it knows is ADP goes in, ATP goes out, and ATP is energy that fuels all function of all life.
And it comes from the friggin mitochondria.
Please be impressed with that little hitch hiker, it is the powerhouse that powers your neurons, grows the vegetables you eat, and makes life happen on earth.
How will we know something extraterrestrial comes our way? They'll have their own mitochondria, because something needs to power their cells, and it won't be the same as ours.
Writing off the mitochondria from biology is like writing off the exchange of goods in economics, or doing physics without the concept of mass, or art without feeling. There is nothing more basic, more fundamentally important to biology than the existence of the mitochondria, and it's role as the powerhouse of the cell.
MITOCHONDRIA IS THE POWERHOUSE OF THE CELL. That you know that makes me happy.
What if an extraterrestrial had the same mitochondria? Would sort of scientific impact would that have of our understanding of everything.
It would basically prove this.
Fascinating thanks for sharing.
That's probably why science dwellers are so bent on finding microscopic life outside of earth.
Thank you! I couldn't stand to hear this anti mitochondria slander.
This is prokaryote erasure.
Alien civilisation: Wait, you're telling me everyone here has a parasite that's within their own cells that is so well established that you can't live without it?
Human: Yeah, pretty much everything alive has it. Nbd.
Not a parasite. A vital sidekick whom we cannot exist without.
A parasite, you say?
New writing prompt, aliens show up and they are wildly different from us but they and all life on their planet also use the exact same mitochondria as us.
Did your lecture get you laid?
Are you kidding, I'm married.
The phrase became unhelpful when it wat teached at very young age without any context...
I'm genuinely curious, how do you feel about parasite eve?
It's one of my all time favourite games.
Never played it, is it an RPG or f/tps? Is it available on steam?
Sadly it's a PS1 exclusive game, but the story is super interesting a it revolves around mitochondria.
It's sort of a mixture of resident evil and final fantasy. Worth checking out on an emulator though!
Tell me more about avocado lungs...
Mitochondria are our best ally.
My mitochondria are retarded, do you have any advice? I have the mitochondrial dna sequenced in cram format if that's useful. Low heteroplasmy, very low mitochondria number per cell (0th percentile), and poor energy production.
Try High Intensity Interval Training. Really intensive short workouts of a few minutes seem to regenerate mitochondria.
Do you have a source I can follow
There are a number of articles and these are a couple.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2123825-best-anti-ageing-exercise-is-high-intensity-interval-training/?utm_campaign=RSS%7CNSNS&utm_source=NSNS&utm_medium=RSS&utm_content=currents
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg99999441-500-the-power-of-hiit/?utm_campaign=RSS%7CNSNS&utm_source=NSNS&utm_medium=RSS&utm_content=currents
Very interesting, wonder how this compares to just exercising
From what Iβve read it is claimed to regenerate mitochondria, be quite quick to do so you save time but other forms of exercise achieve different results like burning fat, cardio etc.
Wonder if you need good mitochondria to put on fat? I can only put on muscle
Itβs more about metabolic health rather than weight loss or gain. Mitochondria are the powerhouse of cellular biology and not having enough or poorly functioning mitochondria leads to all sorts of problems like inflammation and metabolic disorders like diabetes. A well functioning mitochondria should give more energy and better performance as well as better health.
Can definitely tick the inflammation box lol
Source, please.
Edit: I read your sources. Very interesting!
wait, we do inherit mitochondria through our mothers, and we can sequence it to find different maternal haplogroups.
Though it exists in parallel to our DNA, it does encode a lot about us and our genetics.
and its* decoding and replication
Thanks! I'm no etymologist, I had to Google which was bugs and which was words.
Could cells live without mitochondria?
Can you live without your lungs? Maybe stomach is a tiny bit more appropriate, I guess you could if you had something pumping nutrients into your body, and taking away the waste, but you'd be on life support for the rest of your days.
ATP, what the mitochondria is there to produce, is used for almost every action in the cell (not used in passive transport and some enzymatics, maybe other stuff, it's been 20 years since I studied cellular bio), and ADP is leftover that needs to be resynthesized into ATP. I guess life could've developed an alternative way to synthesize it, but the mitochondria is so good at it that it was never needed.
I think you're missing the point of why that phrase became a bit of a joke and is considered unhelpful. It's not written off because people think mitochondria are unimportant or should be written off, it's because when you're a teen learning this stuff and they're trying to explain how cells work, mitochondria are a particularly strange and complicated thing that's thrown in to the mix, and it sounds important and complicated but in lieu of any real details there's the sudden brick wall of this weirdly uncharacteristic phrase that doesn't really sound like how you're teacher normally speaks, doesn't really read like how the rest of the textbook reads and other than some vague allusion to "power" fails quite spectacularly to tell you what mitochondria are.
Part of what made it maddeningly confusing was that these lessons are getting you thinking about how mechanisms can coalesce to form larger systems, encouraging you interrogate macro scale phenomena down to the smallest scales and see how it all ticks and then suddenly they hit you with this magic "powerhouse", very poorly explained, and which because of that poor explanation appears somehow irreducibe. You know mitochondria have "power" of some sort but any of their own mechanisms are conspicuously left out of the picture. This is probably for good reason because of the difficulty of making a syllabus that isn't too deep or broad for the time available and for teenagers to pick up but it's a very sudden brick wall. HOW do the mitochondria power cells? Do the mitochondria have cells? Do the mitochondria's cells have mitochondria? How are they transmitting this power to our cells? The way this phrase was used was more reminiscent of a slogan, or an ad campaign and quite unlike much of anything else one remembers from biology class, it felt very... out of context. Even the choice of the word "power house" always felt weird, as it wasn't for me at least, a word commonly encountered so to use it as an analogy really undermined it's ability to help you grasp anything as it sought to explain one concept in terms of another only vaguely understood concept. I gathered this was a similar term to "power plant" although other than a popular museum in Sydney I had never heard the term used outside of that goofy phrase and to say mitochondria function similar to a power plant, in that they produce power doesn't really say much more than, "mitochondria are the energy source of cells" which is similarly meaningless in all but the most basic sense.
So, don't blame the mocking meme for dismissing mitochondria, blame the weird ass phrase the meme mocks for completely failing to explain anything about them and relegating them to a single, cryptic, hand waving sentence.
Knowing 'the mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell' means absolutely nothing sans any context. It should make you sad that people's knowledge of your field is as shallow as a puddle. (Kidding mostly. Also projecting)
Physics can be done without mass. Next question
It's pretty hard though. Without mass, everything travels at the speed of light and doesn't experience the flow of time, which don't really mesh well with classical physics (or quantum mechanics, and definitely not relativity).
Define the speed of light to be 1 (gaussian units). Then Einstein's E=mc^2 becomes E=m. Mass is energy. In physics mass is not fundamental. Energy is.
In biology mitochondria are not essential, hydrocarbons are. Life sprung up without mitochondria, but it wouldn't be what it is without them. Chemistry is fundamental to biology, mitochondria aren't, but I think you'd agree physics wouldn't be what it is today without mass, nor would biology be without the mitochondria
Depends what you mean by "what it is today.". Mass isn't fundamental. It is a particle's coupling to the Higgs Boson which generates mass. The Lagrangian of the Standard Model is an energy equation. Not a mass one.
Do you watch a lot of v-sauce? There's a certain argumentative style that he instills in his audience that I'm picking up when reading your comments. There's a lot of nuance and acceptability outside of the strict definitions that goes into the scientific process (as much as strict adherents don't like it, science is done when we close those gaps, it isn't immediate nor absolute)
No