this post was submitted on 14 Aug 2024
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UK Politics

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So Israel break international law and then Starmer asks Iran to just suck it up, saying it will put the ceasefire in jeopardy, ignoring the fact that Israel just assassinated the lead negotiator. What in the bloody fuck?

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[–] frankPodmore@slrpnk.net 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Can you arbitrarily provide me with evidence of what you think about any given thing with the precise context I think is important? Because, if not, I don't see why you'd expect this of anyone else.

[–] whenyellowstonehasitsday@fedia.io -1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

any given thing

literally the thing we're talking about

the precise context I think is important

literally any context other than this specific one

 

if you only ever bring up how israel needs to face international justice in the context of iran facing international justice, it kind of sounds like you don't really care about israel facing international justice

[–] frankPodmore@slrpnk.net 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Do you write down every opinion you have and publish it in case someone asks you to prove that you think it at a later date? That is what you're asking of me.

As far as I know, you have the opposite problem. Have you ever demanded international justice for Iran without also demanding it for Israel? Prove it! It's a ridiculous standard.

[–] whenyellowstonehasitsday@fedia.io -1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

my account is 3 days old and your account is over 300 days old

you've been plenty active in feddit.uk over the past few months, which has had plenty of news stories to pick from where it would've been a relevant remark, and it's not like you haven't spoken about israel during that time, and the harshest thing you've had to say about the situation is now, but only in the context of iran also deserving international justice

[–] frankPodmore@slrpnk.net 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Do you think my Lemmy experience represents the totality of my views? Can you give me a specific number of months on Lemmy I can use before it's fair for me to judge all of your opinions?

[–] whenyellowstonehasitsday@fedia.io -1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

oh we're playing the "draw the precise, exact line" game, are we?

whatever that line is, a year and multiple times talking specifically about israel seems like enough time to get across a sentiment more negative than "i guess israel is kind of bad, but we can't be too hasty about these things"

[–] frankPodmore@slrpnk.net 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I look forward to the day when you've have also written down the sum total of your opinions on one public forum, so that you can be judged on the grounds you consider fair.

[–] whenyellowstonehasitsday@fedia.io 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

i'm not asking for the sum total of your opinions

i'm asking for any evidence an opinion which you've previously been happy to provide on several past occasions isn't in piss-baby centrist territory

[–] frankPodmore@slrpnk.net 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Purity tests and insults are self-defeating. How about engaging with the substance of what people in this thread are saying?

[–] whenyellowstonehasitsday@fedia.io 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

whether or not you actually care about israel's war crimes is very obviously materially relevant to the conversation

[–] frankPodmore@slrpnk.net 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

And I've said I do. The problem is that you're obsessed with 'proving' I don't, something you cannot do. This is your problem, not mine.

[–] whenyellowstonehasitsday@fedia.io -1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

yes because people never say things that aren't true or that they don't really believe

it's not really anybody's problem that you're a hypocrite, but it is relevant to point out that it's likely the case

[–] frankPodmore@slrpnk.net 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Your (false) belief about my beliefs is not relevant to my argument or to me. It is certainly not very helpful to whatever cause you think you're espousing to rely on purity tests and insults rather than any cogent responses to other people's arguments.

[–] whenyellowstonehasitsday@fedia.io 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

pointing out that when you say "iran and israel should face international justice", you only mean "iran should face international justice" is relevant, yes

i'm not insulting you when i call you a hypocrite, i'm just accurately labeling the thing you're doing, and if you take the word for the thing you're doing as an insult, that's maybe a sign you should stop doing that thing

if you want to take referencing a year's worth of posts establishing your position on israel as a purity test then i could play my own fun little line drawing game

[–] frankPodmore@slrpnk.net 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

pointing out that when you say “iran and israel should face international justice”, you only mean “iran should face international justice” is relevant, yes

But I don't mean that. My posting history about Israel suggests nothing of the sort. It's mostly me talking about what other people have said about Israel. When I do give my own opinions on Israel, they're 1. To criticise Starmer's earlier, weak position on Gaza; 2. To criticise Trump moving the US embassy. To characterise those comments as though they represent a year's worth of pro-Israel comments is ludicrous.

I'm not interested in talking about this any further with you.

[–] whenyellowstonehasitsday@fedia.io -1 points 4 months ago

Also, it wouldn't actually silence his critics on this, precisely because it won't change anything. The war will continue, so people would just start demanding that [Starmer] demand issuing arrest warrants for Israeli government ministers who come to the UK, or trade embargoes, or whatever.

i guess defending starmer's "earlier, weak position on gaza" is more or less equivalent to criticism of it