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If we had a normal election I'd be voting 3rd party because of the Dem's unwavering support for Israel with a genocide happening there. Unfortunately our choice is like choosing between a shit sandwich or pureed cauliflower for dinner. Pureed cauliflower sounds disgusting but when so many people are going to choose the shit sandwich I better vote for Cauliflower so I don't eat shit
My son is a pretty good cook and has done this. Unlike a shit sandwich people actually finds ways to make food that's good for you taste decent. The only people a shit sandwich is good for are those selling the shit. A fitting analogy for our election.
I read the last two sentences in the Angry Video Game Nerd's voice.
What a great idea. Since this country began, a 3rd party candidate has never won the Presidency. And that's because everyone but you understands that in a First Past the Post system, voting for a third party candidate will ONLY ever benefit the party you least want to see elected, whether you are in a "normal" election or not.
Unwavering support < are you a liar or just ignorant? The Dems are the only party with members that DON'T support Israel. The Republicans are the party with unwavering support, and they fucking LOVE it when a liberal throws away their vote.
I wonder how many Republicans read comments like yours and just start belly laughing?
A 3rd party vote is a vote for neither but with a nod toward where we'd like to head. I loath the DNC just slightly more than the old RNC. With the RNC becoming a MAGA party, I could never vote for one of their candidates. When our vote is fascism or a DNC status quo I'll plug my nose like I did for Hillary and vote for whoever the DNC puts up. I'd really like to see the non DNC preferred candidate win the primary in 2028 and have the progressive arm of the party have significant clout.
And yes, the DNC has unwavering support for Israel. What more proof do you need than Biden still sending weapons to them while a genocide is taking place? The Prog wing in the party is a great voice, but they have little clout and AIPAC has been effective at getting them out.
I totally appreciate your sentiment and generally agree, but with the caveat that the problem you're facing is not just a problem with this current election, but an inherent issue with your electoral system.
I always thought a parliamentary system made more sense so we could vote for parties that aligned more closely with our ideals and our ideals for our nation. France is currently showing how the divide between right wing nationalism, the leave it as it is people, and those who want more social and economic equity can still lead to deadlock as much as a 2 party system can. The powerful are so powerful now and our information is controlled by so few, with so little social responsibility or regard for the media as a watchdog over the powerful. They are the powerful trying to keep us in the dark.
This is a good way of putting it.
More like a shit sandwich and a shit sundae.
Not imo. One side wants to kill me with no regulations on air, water, and food so a shit sandwich would be acceptable to them if it lines their benefactors pockets. The other side may want to get me to eat cauliflower because not only is it good for me but it lines their benefactors pockets
no cauliflower just shit.
They both have shit in them, there's just more of it or maybe a different consistency to the shit in the other.
We may be doing a lot of choosing the lesser evil but gd there is such a huge margin between them right now. I am not willing to give a rapist traitor a 2nd chance to damage the country more than he already did. Hell I expect him to try and pull off something right on election day and if not that a Jan 6th 2.0 right after it. Putting the country into a civil war would not bother the diaper wearing orange shit sandwich in the slightest.
I will not at all be shocked if republicans under trumps command try to push election certification to the house while complaining of fraud that didn't happen.
I can already feel libs re-calibrating their 'electability' meters to accommodate Harris's reactionary immigration policies and 'law and order' posturing.
This is a huge step to the right but libs couldn't give any fewer fucks about it.
"Oh, these policies are a step back. Welp, let's let Mr. Dictator Day One do some more insurrection from the Oval Office, that'll fix the country."
Who said they wanted cheeto man in the white house? Certainly wasn't me.
"Okay kids, today we're going to take a vote! Raise your left hand if you want everyone to be kicked in the genitals. Raise your right hand if you'd like everyone to be irreversibly sterilized! You can also choose to abstain from voting by not raising either hand."
Two out of the five kids present raise their right hand. One out of the five kids present raises their left hand. Two of the kids abstain.
As the children are being taken to the sterilization room the kid who raised their left hand turns to the two kids who abstained and asks "Why didn't you vote!? Now we're all going to be sterilized!"
One of the two replies, "Well neither of us wanted to be kicked in the genitals!"
Who said I wasn't voting?
No one. I just thought it was a fun story. If you'd like I can add a part where the left-hand-raiser fearmongers to the abstainers about how awful it is to be kicked in the genitals, though.
Ranting about the awfulness of the democratic party during a contentious election cycle, on a post about third party options, and with so much on the line for marginalized folx... It just seems like a poor strategy to me. The work is in the streets, not in virtue signaling your leftist moral superiority on Lemmy. For now I'm choosing to feign unity and enthusiasm until such time as I can drop the facade and continue with whatever praxis I can muster.
What do I know, though. I definitely don't have The Answer.
Not if you're goal is to push democrats leftward. Funny how leftists are accused of virtue signaling while liberals are quite openly saying they're biting their tongues and acting excited for a candidate they know is going to put the party back 20 years.
Did you know Bad Religion is actually on ~~concert~~ tour right now though? Right now i've got this one on heavy rotation.
We'll have to agree to disagree. In this instance I think anti-dem chatter on lemmy is more likely to chill youth turnout than it is to push the Democratic party leftward. I would prefer you didn't assume me to be a liberal, if that was meant to be an insinuation. We leftists do an awful lot of fighting and virtue signaling within our in-group and I am now and have been guilty of it myself... plenty.
For what it's worth, my vote in US "democracy" is and always has been a function of strategy. My life, on the other hand, is and has been dedicated to radicalizing myself and as many people as possible through dialectic, praxis, and building / maintaining / participating in alternative living systems within the US. You can dig into my post history if you're curious. I don't want to virtue signal at you.
Fantastic song! I really enjoyed Age Of Unreason as a whole.
Unfortunately, they've cancelled all dates for this current tour, citing “unforeseen family circumstances.” I'm really hoping that this isn't something band-ending. I've been afraid of them calling it quits for years now, and I want to see them live again. I've taken every opportunity (when I had the financial ability). That's only been 2004 and 2016 (with Against Me!, great show), plus seeing Greg do his solo thing in 2017 when he toured for the release of Millport.
https://youtu.be/pi1VkYNMafY?t=453
Not any more than protesting or demonstrating do (far, far less, if anything). If voicing dissent against unpopular reactionary policies ends up chilling enthusiasm, it isn't voicing that dissent that's doing it, it's the reactionary policies. We're not obligated to campaign for democrats or even temper our criticism when they're defending and holding water for Israel as while they're slaughtering Palestinians and reducing Gaza to rubble.
I don't claim to know what your worldview is but using a weird metaphor about forced sterilization to blame others of enabling reactionary political movements for voicing critique of - checks notes - reactionary democratic policy is certainly not in line with the life of virtue and praxis you're describing.
That's a bummer though, I didn't know that. I saw they were playing in Iowa in October and was thinking about driving down there for it. The same thing happened when I wanted to see Rage Against the Machine in 2021 - I'm not sure they'll be going back on tour either.
I was trying to be funny and use some hyperbole. I guess I failed, as I so often do. Sometimes exaggerations can help to illustrate a point, and I admit I've gotten so used to seeing people on here talk about how voting for dems in 2024 is foolish if you're a leftist that I just automatically lumped you in with them. I apologize for that.
I don't consider myself a particularly virtuous person, if we go by the dictionary definition. I didn't intend to claim that my actions made me virtuous. The subjective nature of morality would make that rather pointless, anyhow. My discussion of virtue signaling in this case was more about acknowledging that on some level most people engage in performative acts meant to ingratiate themselves to their preferred social group.
I've got nothing to prove here, and I think I've made my point as much as I can before we both just start repeating ourselves; That strategy extends beyond the voting booth. I'm going to continue to do what I can in public digital spaces to keep people excited to vote and prevent a second Trump presidency, even if that means I have to tone down my online critique of democrats for a few months. I will continue to critique them in spaces where I can be sure that said critique doesn't chill voter turnout, though.
I've had a good time discussing this stuff with you, thank you for the interesting conversation, and sorry if I came off as a jerk! I'm going to try to get off of social media for the night, but I'll probably be on again tomorrow or later in the week if you want to continue to discuss/debate how online discourse can shape elections!
I hope you get a chance to see BR sometime soon, too! Always a pleasure to find another fan online!
If you don't vote Dem you're willing to let him win and don't see any difference between how the 2 candidates who can actually win differ enough to choose one over the other when one is a fascist
I'm not saying I won't vote dem, I'm simply expressing dissent against some of their policies.
People here act as if observations about a candidate are themselves votes, and if you make enough negative observations about the democrats it will directly cause their loss, but if you balance them with negative statements about the republicans, they will somehow cancel each other out. Worse, people here seem to give more weight to statements or observations about a candidate than the actual candidate themselves, as if nobody saying anything about the democrats doing something bad will prevent it from manifesting into reality.
We'Re BeInG StRaTeGiC!