this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2024
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[–] random@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I don't belive marx to be really auth, since he was striving for a stateless society, I just disagree with him on how we get there

so I'm not exactly an anti marxist, but neither a marxist

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

What Marx calls the "State" and what Anarchists call the "State" are different concepts, ergo what Marx calls "Stateless" would still have hierarchy, and what Anarchists call "Stateless" would still have implementations of class oppression. Marxists and Anarchists do not want the "same thing."

If we take your statement that your only major aggreement with Marx is a "Stateless" society, but you're working off the Anarchist definition of the State, then you are necessarily anti-Marxist. I'd rather you say that openly than try to twist Marxism despite being an Anarchist, so I hope it's just a misunderstanding on your part.

[–] random@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

well, then I'm an "anti-marxist" I wouldn't really like to put it that way tho, since I agree with him on a lot of things

also sry for twisting things, it's been a long time since I read marx

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

That's fine, I would just focus more on your "pro-Anarchist" identity than your "anti-'authoritarian'" side. You can be whatever you want to be, your political views are your own.

also sry for twisting things, it's been a long time since I read marx

It wasn't a moral judgement! Just wanted to clear up a clear misconception. I obviously recommend reading more Marx. What do you agree with about Marx?

[–] random@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

> What do you agree with about Marx?

just off my head:

  • the labor theory of value
  • surplus value
  • freedom
  • that the means of production should be owned by the community
  • democracy (from what I remember he was kinda democtratic, please correct me)
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The LTV is based on Materialism, so I'd read up more on that. Same with Surplus Value.

Freedom is one that is a bit different from Anarchists. Marxists believe that the individual is free when the community is free, Anarchists tend to believe the Community is free when the individual is free.

As for "communally owned," there's an important nuance. Marxists are in favor of public ownership and central planning, Anarchists are in favor of communal ownership and mutual aid. Different systems entirely.

Democracy is a bit vague. All Marxists are democratic, the structure of the democracy is different, and not direct democracy like most Anarchist systems.

[–] random@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

thx for refreshing my memory, I should totally read it again, it's been almost 20 years now

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Let me know if you want any recommendations!

[–] random@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

thought I'll read the Kapital again, since I appear to have forgotten pretty much anything from it

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Capital is a good choice, but you'll get more bang for your time with Socialism: Utopian and Scientific IMO.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

And wage labor and capital and value price and profit if they want to touch more on the economics.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 month ago

Certainly good, but I'd say Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism and The State and Revolution are more eye-opening for an anti-AES Anarchist to read.