this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2024
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I'm skeptical that there's a huge swath of voters refusing to vote just because of fracking. And if there are people claiming that, I don't believe they would be voting even if Kamala did come out against fracking anyway. Everyone knows Trump would be much, much worse for the environment than Kamala, and to refuse to vote over one single environmental issue is either very dumb or completely disingenuous.
because, unfortunately, donations are important. It's a shitty system, and this is what they have to do to win in the system.
actually it is.
No one said there was.
I said a majority of voters in PA want it banned, and Kamala would gain votes there if she agreed with the Dem voter base nationally and wanted to ban it
https://www.wvia.org/news/pennsylvania-news/2024-10-10/pa-voters-split-on-fracking-but-show-widespread-support-for-stronger-regulations
58% of PA voters want it banned
What is Kamala gaining by being pro-fracking?
Donations so she can try and convince the people who live by fracking and know how bad it is that they should vote for her anyways because Trump is probably fracking?
Even if that works....
You know that means they still have fracking in their backyards, right?
I can admit when I'm wrong, I really didn't think it needed this much explaining.
you clearly implied it by saying, "Taking a stand against fracking is all it would take to guarantee trump can’t win".
...which does not mean she'd gain voters from changing her position. How many of those people are voting for her anyway? How many would actually vote for her if she did change her position? you don't know this, and neither do I, but I'm guessing they have a pretty good idea.
Yes. I'm not arguing that it's a good thing. I'm saying this is the way it is, and this is what they need to do to win in the system we have. If you want to fix the system, you need to vote D to gradually re-take SCOTUS and overturn shit like Citizens United that is fucking our politics with money.
again some things are not as simple as you think.
That doesn't say anything about non voters....
If 58% of PA voters were voting for her anyways, why is it still a battleground state?
But why are you questioning every reason for why Kamala should match the party and ban fracking....
And you can't offer a si gle reason why she's pro-fracking besides:
So are you just admitting that the reason both candidates in 2024 are pro-fracking is because they're taking bribes in the form of donations?
Like, and I hate that I have to say this:
Just because trump takes fossil fuel bribes doesn't mean Kamala does.
Like, by that same logic you're using to defend fracking, a foreign government can buy off the Dem party to support and find their invasion of sovereign countries...
Because trump and the Republicans do it too.
Is that what you meant to say or do you not even realize what you're defending here?
Yes, in order to win in a shitty system, sometimes you have to do shitty things. Welcome to the real world.
because there is more than one issue at stake in this election, and fracking ranks far down on that list for most people. there is also likely a significant amount of trump voters who are against fracking but would never change their vote to kamala.
So you legit think it's better to piss off voters and then use corpo donations to try and claw back some?
Your priority isnt getting votes then, it's getting donations. Donations that will need to be spent in an attempt to get back some of the votes we lost to get the donations....
Nothing will ever get fixed if we do that.
It's just creating an extra step that pisses off the people we need votes from
it depends on how many votes, and how much money. You are just assuming the votes clearly outweighs the money, but you don't have enough political experience or information to know that (and neither do I to be clear). But I guarantee you the Harris campaign has done the cost-benefit analysis. They could be wrong because nothing in politics is 100%, we'll just have to see.
Are you not aware of the overlap with the 2016 and 2020 campaigns?
2020 we won by literally tens of thousands of votes, it worked but just barely and mostly because trump was already in office.
The people running this campaign and the dnc don't know what the fuck they're doing. They've locked in as donations as a metric and only chase that one single metric, even to the point of ignoring votes.
It's ok to criticize them, we're not Republicans
i’m not saying you’re not allowed to criticize them. i just doubt that you know better than they do. just because the elections are close doesn’t mean your strategy is better. they are fighting an uphill battle with the electoral college and too much money in politics, on both sides.
If you look at who "they" are, it's mostly the people who couldn't beat trump in 2016 and barely beat him in 2020 after Sanders drug them kicking and screaming to the left in the primary
We didn't get that this year, no one is dragging Kamala left...
They're not "the best at what they do" except in raising donations, seriously, look I to the people running shit, they're in positions of power because they brought in the most money, they're always going to side with the money because their metric is how much they can bring in.
It is not a good way to run a political party, and most voters don't even know it's happening.
we're going in circles, I have already addressed all these points.