politics

Honestly, unsure. I dont think that you have a particular obligation to have sex with any sort of person, and I do think that you have an obligation (not necessarily a legal obligation, but a "being a decent person" one) to not be racist. It isnt exactly unusual for a person to prefer their partner belong to a specific category (for example, a gay man is likely to refuse to consider being with a woman, but I dont think they would be a misogynist for that). That being said, there isnt a particular difference between all white women and any other sort of women that would make for much of a reason to do this beyond just hating white women in particular, whereas for a woman, there is a notable difference between a man and, for those who would be attracted to them as well, a woman, as far as partners goes, because with a man, there exists a possibility of pregnancy, which could be dangerous in the current state of the country.

I suggest that I'm going to have sex with someone. Then, as a form of retaliation, I tell them I'm not going to have sex with them. By your logic, this is not punishment.

I think I see the problem with your logic here. This whole 4B movement is about women taking back control over their bodies, especially in an upcoming era that's allowing misogynistic men to be more vocal and accepted in society.

It has nothing to do with punishment. Claiming that women are "retaliating against" or "punishing" men is making the topic about men instead of what it's really about - women's rights.

No women is required to date a man, or sleep with a man, or even associate with men. Period. 4B is just a way for women to protect themselves from the incoming onslaught of openly misogynistic men that Trump's presidency is justifying.

Will women dump their current partners and/or spouses to join this movement? Doubtful, unless there are already some red flags there that they're just now picking up. But that's inconsequential because again, this movement isn't about men.

As men, it's so easy for us live our lives without fear. Almost no one tries to rape and/or murder us because they thought we were hot. We hardly ever have stalkers. So we don't realize just how prevalent that scenario is in a woman's life. Even my own wife, who I always felt was tougher than me, is still terrified to go out by herself at night because she's already been victim to sexual harassment and assault, multiple times. That's not something I've ever had to deal with in my own life.

And the crazy things is, women really don't know who they're getting involved with until it's too late. Sure, to us men it seems like most men are fine and harmless. But that's because we're not the sexual target of most men. A dude who seems like a fine gentleman might have some fucked-up desires or views on women's autonomy behind closed doors, and they can be really good at pretending to be a decent human being in public. It's only once a woman is alone behind those closed doors that they might truly learn the awful plans a guy has for her, and at that point, it might be too late to get out without danger to life or limb. Or worse, surviving a situation like that and then having no one believe you in court, so you can't prevent that person from stalking you.

Preventing that scenario in the first place is the whole point of 4B. Women always live in fear of dating men because it's always a gamble. Truly kind and respectful men who understand boundaries and never push them are extremely rare. Even "decent" men still think with their dicks from time to time and push boundaries, hoping they can convince their partner to cave and give them what they want. With the surge of misogynists coming out of the woodwork and being openly threatening to women, it risks spreading acceptance of the mindset that women don't get bodily autonomy around men. So abstaining from men entirely is the safest thing they can do right now. It's too risky trying to figure out if someone is truly a gentleman or if they're just putting on a mask to get laid.

Basically, women are saying they're trying to protect their lives and you're trying to turn the discussion toward men's rights instead. The topic isn't about men. And treating a women's decision to retain bodily autonomy like it's a reward or punishment for guys is honestly super misogynistic in itself. No man is entitled to a women's body; it is not punishment for a woman to decide not to associate with a man.

I dont really see it as a contradiction, tbh, as I dont really see sex as the same category of "thing" as something like money, and I think the difference between them is so fundamental as to be meaningful here. I'll admit, I dont really have personal experience with how this stuff goes down, as I said before, Im asexual myself, but it was my understanding that it wasnt that unusual for a person who was interested in sex to change their mind if something resulted in a change in their mood that killed the vibe, and disagreeable actions by the other person could easily enough be the thing to do that. I'd bring up again though, that these 4b people havent, as far as I can see, said that they would have sex with any man in particular before, just that they for sure dont want to now, so regardless of your feeling on if this is contradictory, the "I suggest that I'm going to have sex with someone" is missing anyway.