this post was submitted on 11 Nov 2024
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Summary

NATO’s Military Committee head, Admiral Rob Bauer, stated that NATO troops would likely be in Ukraine countering Russian forces if Russia lacked nuclear weapons.

Speaking at the IISS Prague Defence Summit, Bauer emphasized that Russia’s nuclear arsenal deters direct NATO involvement, contrasting Ukraine’s situation with past NATO interventions in non-nuclear states like Afghanistan.

Although NATO nations provide military aid to Ukraine, direct troop deployment has been avoided, with leaders like U.S. President Biden ruling it out due to nuclear escalation risks highlighted by Russian threats and rhetoric.

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[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 107 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Fuck it. If nukes are an excuse to prevent all conventional intervention, then nukes are a free pass to commit any crimes one wishes against non-nuclear powers. Put boots on the ground, or accept nuclear proliferation as a fact of life once countries realize that Ukraine proves that giving up nukes does not result in international support for sovereignty against revanchist states.

[–] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 37 points 1 week ago (1 children)

If nukes are an excuse to prevent all conventional intervention, then nukes are a free pass to commit any crimes one wishes against non-nuclear powers.

Well... yeah.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 12 points 1 week ago (2 children)

The easy solution is to show that nukes are not protection against all conventional intervention. We should have given Zelenskyy a no-fly zone back when he asked for one.

[–] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 week ago (2 children)
[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago

Easy as in simple, not easy as in likely or without cost.

[–] whyNotSquirrel@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Step 1: Put boots on Russian territory

Step 2: (nuclear) Winter is coming

Step 3: 💥 ~~profit~~ 💥

[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Nobody’s saying NATO should invade Russia.

We’re saying NATO could EASILY establish IADS over the vast majority of Ukraine to defend their civilian population and infrastructure.

[–] jlh@lemmy.jlh.name 0 points 1 week ago

Put up proof that you know this would happen, or stop fear-mongering.

[–] freeman@sh.itjust.works -1 points 1 week ago

But they are. Its been settled decades ago.

[–] jmcs@discuss.tchncs.de 22 points 1 week ago (3 children)

The only thing that surprises me in geopolitics right now is that Iran is not mass producing nukes yet.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

It's a delicate process, not easy to simply produce a bunch of nuclear weapons. Iran is at the point where they could have a few inside of a year anytime they actually want to trigger that particular international crisis.

[–] Badeendje@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The moment they would try to make the last dash to nukes, is the moment the US would be bombing the everlasting shit out of Iran to prevent it.

[–] jmcs@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Like they did in North Korea?

[–] Badeendje@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago

North Korea was under Chinese protection. This is what Iran likely is trying to do with Russia.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 1 points 1 week ago

They've been clear that they don't do it because they don't think they'd make Iran more secure.

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

If nukes are an excuse to prevent all conventional intervention, then nukes are a free pass to commit any crimes one wishes against non-nuclear powers

That is the assumption Russia is operating under.

[–] scarabic@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago

Yeah this is such a losing strategy. All it does is authorize crimes in the short term and drive up nuclear proliferation in the long term.

Of course, the alternative is a game of chicken with nuclear powers to test the doctrine of mutually assured destruction.

Still, better to do that now than years from now with the smaller, more radical parties who will by then control nukes, thanks to the nuclear proliferation the current strategy drives.