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Narrowing down the options to apartheid/genocide and the abolition of the Jewish character of Israel. In other words killing off the last vestiges of a non-fascist version of Zionism that a "small Israel" could allow.
So, liberal Zionists: which side are you on?
Dude I gave up the moment I heard on the radio that the fucker killed Rabin. If you want to live in Zion move to New York.
...also, to the rest of the thread: If you think the US election was decided on Israel, please go outside and touch grass. Talk to people. You know, those flesh-and blood things usually found within metal containers on rubber circles that you rarely interact with. Ask them. Practically nobody in the US gives a fuck, and especially not enough of a fuck for it to be the #1 cause of things.
I am absolutely not a Zionist, but this is kind of a shitty thing to say.
https://www.oed.com/dictionary/jew-york_n?tl=true
The answer to "if you want to live in Zion" is "too bad."
New York is host to the second most populous Jewish community, after Tel Aviv, before Jerusalem. That's a fact, not some antisemitic conspiracy theory.
And now you stand here, introducing a derogatory term because... noone said it? What's your intention? Make it more popular? Imply that the sentiment against Jewish New York would be any worse than existing sentiment against Israel? One has quaint strings up power poles and plenty of bagels, the other a genocidal maniac and convicted terrorist as minister of national security, I don't think there's a competition to be had, there.
...or is it that you don't want any more Jews in NYC?
I didn't say that it was a conspiracy theory. I said suggesting that New York is "Zion" just because of its Jewish population is a bad thing to say and I showed you the reason why.
I'm a Jew. I'm a even mod of c/Jewish.
Nice try though.
...no you didn't? You showed that there was a disparaging name for the Jewish community in New York. From that I infer your argument to be "NYC can't be Zion because there exist at least some people that don't like Jews to be there", but, and you won't believe this: There's not a single place in the world where that's not the case. Found a colony on Mars, it'd still be the case. It's not a suitable way to judge a place's suitability to be Zion. Few people being miffed at its existence, sure, but none? That's just an impossible standard.
Okay, well I'm sorry I wasn't clear, but the point is that suggesting New York is Zion for Jews when Christians exponentially outnumber them plays into conspiracy theory nonsense whether or not you intended it that way.
Maybe you don't care you were saying something that could be taken as offensive by Jewish people, but it could.
...and different ethnicities outnumber Jews pretty much everywhere? Or is this about Wall Street? To that I have to say that I'm simply not antisemitic enough to even think about connecting the two, had to wreck my brain for a bit what you might be trying to get at. Certainly more (ethnically) Christian bankers there than Jewish ones.
(And just so you know where I'm coming from: German, grandpa was prosecuted as "half-Jew" (barely enough "German blood" to not end up in a camp, also, Lutheran, great-grandparents not so lucky), I have family in Israel. Long story short: Taking the lessons from my ancestry together, there can be no non-anti-fascist Zionism because fascism is a tragedy also for the perpetrators. There'd never be peace. hevenu_shalom_aleichem.opus)
I told you how what you are saying could be offensive to Jews. Either you care or you don't. Apparently you don't.
And I'm not very impressed with your ancestry. Let me know when someone looks at you and asks you why you support Israel because of your stereotypically Jewish features. Let me know when you walk by someone and they give a Nazi salute. And definitely tell me about the time when you were in high school and someone stole a book you were reading, drew a swastika on every page, then put it back in your backpack later that day.
Your little 'hevenu shalom alecheim' at the end there does not change the fact that what you said can be construed as offensive. This is some "I can tell racist jokes because my grandfather was half-black" territory.
So what? You have a personal responsibility for being offended. It's not everybody else's job to walk on eggshells to avoid offending you. If you go looking for things people have said that can offend you, you're gonna have a shitty time.
Try making an effort to interpret people in the best possible way, and you'll have a much better time, with much fewer people being perceived as "going after you".
I am telling you right now, as a moderator, that I will not tolerate offensive comments from you again. I'm not going to argue with you on the nature of being offensive. We have a very clear civility rule. I don't think it is wise for you to continue this conversation, but I will definitely take a look at other comments of yours in World News and also take note of you in the future.
You're asking a German whether that happens. Yes, yes, it fucking happens occasionally when abroad and I can't even punch them right there in the gob for it because the self-defence laws abroad don't tend to include insult. We also have actual Nazis here and they don't tend to like it when you look like a punk.
I don't want to make this a comparison, much less an Olympics. What I want to say is that I recommend against getting into the habit of assuming you're the only one, or part of the only group, which experiences shitty things. You're not alone, by a long shot. Especially kids are awful and will other you for every- and nothing just because they can. Least of all should you make it, even to the slightest degree, part of your identity: Standing up for justice doesn't require self-victimisation, on the contrary, self-victimisation tends to obscure perception, lock you into tunnel-vision, isolate you from solidarity because why would potential allies give a fuck about your struggle if you can't even see theirs. It's all in all a bad, self-defeating and self-destructive, trip.
"can be construed". You can construe anything to be anything if you try hard enough. I could say "Turkish Halva is better than Israeli Halva" and you could take offence at that, and interpret it as antisemitic (for the record: I can't tell a difference). The Israeli music scene certainly sucks, by and large and maybe glossing over two or three bands you have the choice between escapist electronica and escapist electronica with fascist texts. Was that offensive enough?
I'm perfectly aware of the difference between Jewish jokes and Jew jokes. The former are actually good.
Jesus Christ. You don't know the difference between someone doing a Nazi salute at a German "occasionally" when abroad and someone in the U.S. doing it to a Jew in the U.S.? And having it happen multiple times in my life? Really? Are you really comparing those two things?
Because that's even more fucking offensive.
Especially since you ignored literally everything else I said so you could whine about how you're treated as badly as Jews because you're German.
I didn't even get past that part because you are coming from such a ridiculous position of privilege that you don't even comprehend the idea of what it is like to be on the receiving end of bigotry.
You need to open your eyes.
And since I have tried to be nice about this so far, I will be blunt: I will not tolerate these sort of offensive comments from you any longer. It's up to you whether or not you want to keep poking the bear here.
I'll quote myself:
I hereby formally concede. I want to win this even less than I wanted to start it.
I guess you've made your choice.
You're off your rocker mate. Being Jewish does not equal being a Zionist, and what does New York have to do with Zion? It's like saying New York is Irish or Italian because they have big populations living there.
No it doesn't, and I never implied that. But Zion, aka a place for Jews to live in peace, happiness and prosperity? Why not NYC? It certainly can be a Zion for some who look for one, I didn't bother to go all "some but not all" for an off-hand quip.
Bruh, fuck isreal and all but let's not get antisemitic here.
Legit. Fuck Israel. Fuck Zionism. Fuck apartheid. Fuck the genocide of Palestinians. But also fuck antisemitism.
It really is interesting to see how quickly seemingly normal folk fall into anti semitism the moment a group of Jewish folk do something terrible. It's like they think that because we are shutting on a state that claims to be a Jewish ethno state that it's valid to shit talk the entire race and religion.
Insidious really.
you're right. it was decided on fear of immigrants, economic ignorance and selfish individualism.