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This is a ridiculous argument. Orange man won the electoral college, got the most votes, won the senate, house of reps, the presidency, and the supreme court. What more is there to lose?
Plenty of coping from the liberal corporate media, instead of admitting that liberals abandoned the working class to court the monied interests.
idk why people keep yapping about abandoning the working class, it mostly just seems like a dogwhistle to a general dissatisfaction that never seems to go away.
People were doing the same shit before biden dropped out, saying they would support someone else, like kamala. That happened, and then they didn't.
how would the liberals court the working class? would electing a fucking immigrant factory worker do it? At what point does the working class actually go "you know what, i agree, i will vote for this person" because the problem is, you can't just put some guy in the seat, we did that with trump, it was a horrendous mistake, and trump should have some idea of how this stuff works.
You need someone politically educated and experienced, capable of representing the people, like biden. There's a reason he got so much legislation through the government, even with how polarized it is right now.
unless of course, you want to overthrow the government, and install a dictator. That would also work.
Bernie Sanders is correct that the Democrats abandoned the working class. I will be blunt and say that Lemmy has ironic bigotry and disdain on the people of colour and working class who voted for Trump. It is important to understand the other side even if you don't agree; that way you would know where they are coming from and sway them. Call Trump voters of all backgrounds racists, hillbillies, mysoginists, redneck, traitors, Uncle Toms or Uncle Hector; but people don't have jobs and crime rate is up. The former blue wall is now the orange Rust Belt that colours Trump. And it is taboo to say this but many places are indeed overwhelmed by too much immigration since those places don't have the infrastructure to support the sudden population increase. Chronically underfunded public services make locals and immigrants compete for school, jobs and hospital beds. Immigrants are blamed instead, when in fact it's the affluent middle and upper classes who keep voting against building more social housing and expanding health services because they don't want their property value to go down and/or pay more taxes. And frankly, I believe many Lemmy users fall into this class camp and don't want to admit we're part of the problem. Many of us are college-educated with higher economic mobility and earnings live in safe and affluent areas because we benefit from the new knowledge economy. We are not rubbing shoulders with working class folks who lost their traditional manufacturing jobs and not experiencing their every day struggle. So, we become detached from the real lived experiences of those left out and deprived of opportunities. We consign rural and de-industrialised Appalachian former workers as ignorant and racists, when in fact we're also being bigoted against them for dismissing their genuine feelings of not having anymore jobs left, and their community left rotting by offshoring and automation caused by mismanaged globalisation. Why else has protectionism returned to the political menu? Has no one asked this instead of simply saying autarky and protectionism is dumb and makes their favourite video-games more expensive?
Simply saying that the economy is doing better is not enough if the rest are not feeling it. Just because we're feeling cushy in our office job doesn't mean those in the Rust Belt are feeling the same. We would not say we're fine if we have cancer on the liver while the rest of the body don't.
There is no denying that there are outright bigotry, but many people are left behind by emerging new technology and job market trend. And the folks who are out of jobs who could not put food on the table is the stuff that dictators are made of. I did not say this, it was Franklin Roosevelt. He knows that desperate people are easily brainwashed and swayed. Tell me you have not been in a dark place on a personal level before and you have not had negative thoughts dominate? It's the same situation happening right now with the working class which manifest on the societal level.
If the mostly affluent Lemmy users, progressives and liberals realise this, then we can take back progressivism into the political spotlight. The same progressives who always call for empathy do not place the same to the blue collar, working class folks left behind economically. Progressives need to understand the people different from them. It is only right to learn even from the other side.
During the Great Depression, neighbours would buy their neighbouring farmers' property at a penny to prevent being possessed by uncallous bankers, and threaten auctioneers for not agreeing with the sale. Where is that solidarity right now?
it's not that complex, i just think that everyone who voted for trump is stupid. Or at the very least, incredibly ignorant. And the facts back me up on this one.
literally how, they live in delusion, They do not live in reality. They think "illegal immigrants" aren't here of legal status. Which is factually untrue. They think democrat cities are a hellhole, and they think they have more gun violence than red states, which is also untrue. In fact large urban cities tend to have the lowest per capita gun violence rates. They think kamala harris is a literal communistic fascist trying to overthrow the government and steal power from biden.
They also think that jan 6th was a guided tour of the capitol, and when presented with information will tell you it was either "FBI agents" or "antifa"
They can't even tell you what caused the inflation in 2020-2024.
These people are akin to dementia patients. How are we supposed to understand them?
according to what, and on what timescales? Unemployment is still relatively low, and crime rates have been trending down since post pandemic. It seems like things might be moderately worse, mostly because of inflation, but that's about it.
it's literally been one election cycle. If this is our standard of proof, this has already happened before, a few times probably.
and who is responsible for this? Republicans, the people we just elected. We had two border bills under biden, title 42 for the rest of the term, and a late executive order to actually do something after the congress failed twice.
technically it's the asylum immigration causing this strain, since they aren't full citizens yet, or kicked out for not passing asylum court, but of course, nobody wants to pay a few million dollars in the fed to fix this problem outright. Although there are problems with things like NIMBYism and people not voting for things like funding education, which has been a republican talking point for ages so there's that.
i'm not, and never will be, even if i had the money it wouldn't be a problem for me. I hate being around people. So this will never be a particular strong suit or problem point for me.
we also have to ascribe some blame to people who simply do not want to move out of the working class as well. Not to double back and be classist here, but coal mining? Seriously? That industry is dead! Get over it and get another job already! Oh what's that, your entire county is out of work? Sounds like a governmental failure. They should've done better.
This is a really big problem with republican populism right now.
and unfortunately, they don't do themselves many favors half the time either. It is the rural voter block that backs trump mostly at the end of the day. They also don't do themselves much of a favor calling dems pedos and child rapists, or communist authoritarians either. I'm certain not all of them do it, and i'm open to the ones who don't. Though if they aren't open to my existence, i'm not going to psyop myself out of existence here unfortunately. My bare minimum here is living in reality, and not being delusional. If you can meet that bar, we will get along well, if not, oh well, gotta crack some eggs to make an omelet i suppose.
not saying i disagree, but please do some polling about how many rural people would like to move to urban areas for job opportunities.
right wing populism.
you mean during the great depression? The single worst economic collapse, ever.
you cannot extend empathy to that which does not request it.
like ultimately, i'm sympathetic to this, but the US doesn't need this right now, it needs a reality check.
It really didn’t have much to do with abandoning anyone. It didn’t matter what democrats proposed at all. The vast majority of people answers they were dissatisfied with America in exit polls. The economy is doing fine on paper but people don’t feel that way. It was the inability to distance from Biden and provide actual radical solutions to things that got them voted down.
At this point it has nothing to do with working class policies. It has everything to do with voter dissatisfaction and pandering to moderates.
The economy doing fine means nothing for 99.9% of people. All that means is rich people made money. People have seen a decrease in their pockets
this isn't actually true. The economy just leads the people in most circumstances. 6 Months from now the economy will be doing better than it was now, and people won't be struggling as much. Not due to trump, amusingly enough.
Also inflation is irrelevant, you can't really just undo inflation. Sure you could just, not do it. But good luck with that one. Inflation is really just a mechanism to offset economic dysfunction, and broaden the impact of it. Such that you don't have a complete global collapse of trade for example.
Not sure why everyone keeps suggesting that the economy will do well under trump. It will only do well if he doesn’t do anything. But the deportations alone will be a disaster.
You’re talking about entire towns losing their farming and dairy communities overnight, not good. Same is true of healthcare workers and food service. Housing prices might double.
And if he does the tariffs, we’re cooked. Recession would happen the very next day no question. So he has like 5 different ways he already plans on taking the economy, he just needs to try one of them and we’ll be in recession.
and the tariffs. And the isolationism, and the retraction from globalism. Plus his intent to move the fed under the control of the executive. Generally, all in all, a bad outlook.
it's going to be an interesting four years for sure, and i have two litmus tests for how fucked we are. If the tariffs go through, we're moderately fucked, and if the fed gets put under exec, we're joever.
Bitcoin is already way up
bitcoin is based on how much i fucked your mom last night, so that makes sense.
The third dimension of the political compass is radical vs. moderate. People want more radical change, and the Democrats didn't meet them there.
Exactly. In a high dissatisfaction environment, you must do your best to distance from the status quo which is why Trump got elected twice. It’s not that democrats are proposing bad policies, it’s that they’re only associated with changes that don’t mean much to average people. They represent the status quo far too much to be interesting.
Yep. The "liberal media" kept up a drum beat with the inflation and of course did next to nothing to tell the low info the real source and it wasn't all inflation.
Control of his ticker, one hopes
Well the left lost thier sanity so everything else has become trivial.
He lost last time and we let him take it. We dont have to keep letting him steal the office