this post was submitted on 30 Nov 2024
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If she did not take it when it benefited her, that would have been hypocritical. She was acting selfishly and taking the money she could. In fact she HAS TO in order to be acting in her own self interest. Are you arguing that taking social security when you can is not in your self interest? If she had been saying not to take social security until that point that also would have been hypocritical (afaik that was not what she was saying but I can't find anything definitive, her arguments were generally just anti tax and now I've ruined my search history). Saying that social security shouldn't exist and that it is immoral to force people to pay into it and all that other bs rhetoric is not against the people taking social security, it's for the government taking taxes for these programs in an effort to end the program.
Exactly. But just like the socialist that is operating in the society they're in with the beliefs they have, Ayn Rand was operating in RSI when she took social security because it was available. This is irony. This is disgusting. This shows how her beliefs are bad and wrong. It shows how the right wingers can act against their own interests. But this is not hypocrisy. I can still believe gambling at a casino is a good money making venture even when I go broke gambling, I'm not a hypocrite, I'm just dumb. Ayn Rand can still believe social security is immoral even as she takes money from it, she's just dumb.
Acting in self interest is supposed to be without the sacrifice of others.
She views any kind of redistribution of wealth (including social security) as something that causes people to sacrifice something.
Her own words show that taking social security is not in line with acting in your self-interest because taking social security is sacrificing others.
I'll ask again, are you arguing that taking social security when you can is not in your self interest? The system doesn't go away if you don't take it and you've already paid into it. The wealth is already being redistributed and going to be redistributed. She is still going to have pay into the system if she lives. Not her decision for it to exist or pay into it. The decision is to take the money or don't. Which is the decision that is self interested?
Yes. That is exactly what Ayn Rand is saying.
And? Paying into it shouldn't change your ideological stance. Or is a vegan allowed to eat meat if they pay to eat at an all you can eat restaurant that serves meat? After all they've already paid for the meat.
Yes, she is being forced to participate in the system the same way socialists are forced to participate in a capitalist system. Nobody is calling her a hypocrite for paying taxes.
According to Rand. A decision made with rational self-interest is a decision that can't sacrifice others and any redistribution of income is a distribution of sacrifice. That means any action in the redistribution process is not compatible with rational self-interest, because the process itself is sacrificing others. She gets a free pass on paying taxes because that participation is forced upon her. She doesn't get a free pass on taking out social security because now she chose to participate in a process that is sacrificing others. Rational self-interest doesn't justify her decision because she is choosing to sacrifice others.
That is just not true. You can't reinterpret and stretch a quote to make it defy very simple logic and completely dismisses and leave unaddressed that she did not control those systems and already was forced to pay into. You don't think taking money you're entitled to, that you've already paid into, is in your self interest. That is literally what those words mean. It is in your self interest to collect on a system you paid into. Full stop. You are completely unreasonable if we can't agree on that
I can't use her own words to show how she's a hypocrite? My bad, I thought we were having a honest discussion. Go enjoy your successful defense of Ayn Rand and her ideology because I'm fucking done with you.
I'm defending what words mean dummy
By deliberately ignoring the meaning given by the author of the term and instead making up your own definition that suits your argument? Such a crusader for correct meanings.
This is a critique of social security as a program it says nothing about what someone who has already paid into the system should do. They were already "robbed". Taking money you're entitled to is rational self interested. That's just what those words mean.
Like how I called her dumb immoral and wrong over and over again? And you think you're trying to have an honest conversation?
I wonder what you think this means. You seem to struggle with what words mean
You don't have to try so hard anymore, you've already defended her ideology. We're done here, I've already tagged you as "defends Ayn Rand" so in the future I'd know who I'm talking to.
Please let me know where I defended her ideology? And you're going to be very confused by that tag if you see me in that lmao. I explicitly have condemned her ideology over and over. Hypocrisy does not equate to moral. You can be hypocritical in a moral way. You clearly just don't know what that word means
She considers wealth redistribution as something that causes people to sacrifice their wealth. She also considers rational self-interest as something that can't happen if others sacrificing anything. Thus voluntarily participating in an act of wealth redistribution, which getting social security is, contradicts rational self-interest because it's causing others to sacrifice their wealth. Her doing that either means she's a hypocrite who doesn't actually believe in her own work, which you disagree with and defend (as evident from the very first comment you made), or her work is ideologically inconsistent, which you also disagree with and defend (the comments where you argue it's in her self-interest because she's paid into it).
It doesn't matter to me which way you're going to try to twist this, you're going to end up defending her or her ideology because you've already done both of those things. I'm not going to continue arguing over those points because I've already established my surrender. You won the defense of Ayn Rand, hence the tag.
Yeah got that. Not disagreeing nor have I ever disagree with that.
No. You do not voluntarily participate in social security. It is taken out of your income by law. Not taking the money doesn't mean you haven't participated in it if you've already paid in.
Again, show me one instance of me defending her ideology because I can show you me consistently condemning it every(?) comment I've made. You clearly believe hypocrisy and immorality are the same concept but they're not. You can be hypocritical and moral and you can not be hypocritical and immoral. They're correlated but not the same thing. These are different words. I don't know why that's so hard for you to understand