this post was submitted on 21 Jan 2025
68 points (92.5% liked)
Piracy: ꜱᴀɪʟ ᴛʜᴇ ʜɪɢʜ ꜱᴇᴀꜱ
55507 readers
409 users here now
⚓ Dedicated to the discussion of digital piracy, including ethical problems and legal advancements.
Rules • Full Version
1. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy
2. Don't request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote
3. Don't request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs
4. Don't submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others
Loot, Pillage, & Plunder
📜 c/Piracy Wiki (Community Edition):
💰 Please help cover server costs.
 |
 |
|---|---|
| Ko-fi | Liberapay |
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Most if not all non-paid options will have privacy concerns similar to gmail, so you’ll have to pay. I pay for Proton, and though I’m not thrilled about some of the political bullshit their CEO has been up to recently, I think I’ll stay with them for now since they’re still good for privacy, and their other services are solid. They’re also very upfront about what they charge and why, and I think they still plan to transition to a non-profit.
There's also Tuta if you're looking for an alternative.
I don't think leaving Proton due to their CEO approving Trump is that reasonable
It's not just the pro-trump stuff though, there's also the case of being very pro-cop in that they helped get info about a french activist against their will or settings, we believe.
God, I can't believe people are still spreading this nonsense. Proton complied with a legal warrant. Name another company on the planet that will receive a legal warrant and refuses to comply. I'll wait.
And the fact that their internal information even can reveal any information indicates a lack of true privacy. Here is an example of setting up a system so you cannot comply.
how the fuck do you run an email provider without storing anything on disk, first of all?
next point is mullvad is ready to close shop if that's what they need to do after a raid. but of you're storing people's data for their request basically, like Proton, you can't just do that because everyone will be mad for losing their data and access to the email service.
finally, Proton does provide a way to use their services in secret, as they run their onion site. login over Tor, done. but probably also create the account over Tor, and never log in through clearnet with that account
I was answering
No you weren't. Not having the information is not the same thing as refusing to comply.
Preemptive prevention of access is a form of noncompliance
No it isn't.
Mullvad doesn't host email. The warrant pertained to emails, not a VPN.
Not having logs helps a ton with anonymity, and your question didn't have that requirement.
Because it didn't need it. Email cannot function with the same level of logging as a VPN. My question was about refusal to comply, which Mullvad did not do.
k.
sure, they must have shut down all services instead, that would have been the real solution!!
Unironically this.
That definitely sounds concerning, do you have a link or anything? Any company would have to comply with a legal court order regardless of their preference or ideology, so how they comply comes down to the amount of information they store and for how long. Just saying, the fact that they helped the cops (as much as I hate the cops in general) doesn’t necessarily mean they handed everything over or volunteered anything they weren’t legally obligated to provide. But I don’t know the specifics of the case you mentioned.
Yes, about this case of I remember well they provided the IP address of the activists.
Any email provider has to follow the law and will have to provide the information they have. The only diffidence of that in the case of proton the information they have is the IP address you used to connect to their service. For another provider the information might be all the content of your email.
The imprompted praise to Trump from proton CEO on the other hand is more concerning.
Several links, here:
https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/06/protonmail-logged-ip-address-of-french-activist-after-order-by-swiss-authorities/
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-58476983
https://www.euronews.com/next/2021/09/07/protonmail-criticised-for-passing-arrested-french-climate-activist-s-ip-address-to-police
https://www.wired.com/story/protonmail-amends-policy-after-giving-up-activists-data/
Hope this helps!
Thank you!
For everyone who doesn't want to read the links: important to note is that had the french activist accessed his protonmail account using any vpn (including proton) or the protonmail .onion site, they would have had nothing useful to report. also, it looks like they only logged the IP after being ordered to monitor access to the mailbox.
It also seems that they were quite frustrated that they couldn't resist in this case, mentioning the inappropate usage of anti-terror laws against what in reality were squatters (which in turn compelled the swiss judges to grant the monitoring).
Sure, happy to help! 🙂