American car-centric culture is literally directly killing people, killing the environment, killing our ability to design cities and public transit...

You'd think the least we could do is be competent at driving.

But fucking nope, not a chance.

I used to live in Seattle.

Almost no one understands that in significant rain, you need to double your following distance.

Still fucking baffles me to this day. Rain City people don't know how to drive... in the rain.

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

A big reason why I’m all for public transport is to get people off the road who shouldn’t be there in the first place so they’re out of my way when I’m driving.

Kind of like how I support new urbanism because it means less wilderness plowed under for suburbs, so I have more native habitat. I don’t want to live in a city, I just want most people to live in them so I can ve alone with my woodland friends.

[–] jwmgregory@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 days ago (2 children)

“… get people off the road who shouldn’t be there in the first place…”

i get the sentiment but i think this is problematic.

who deserves the right to drive then?

i hear you, “people who are capable”. but real life isn’t so cut and dry. the way it works in america now is awful fs, you can back this up with death statistics fairly easily; however, i think this tribalistic “us vs them” attitude drivers get is emblematic of deeper problems in our culture.

everyone is all for the animal farm until they’re the other. cliche, i know, but it’s true.

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Driving isn’t a right, it’s a privilege. And we determine who can drive by testing them to see if they know and will follow the rules.

Plus the old dude I saw today with shaking hands and an oxygen tube in his nose deserves to have an alternative where he won’t kill himself or others.

[–] jwmgregory@lemmy.dbzer0.com -2 points 3 days ago (2 children)

oh yeah, it’s surely a privilege to be allowed to participate in society.

the argument “driving isn’t a right, it’s a privilege” falls entirely flat on its face when there exist no alternatives for a large majority of people and their lives. hardcore boomer energy that blatantly ignores the reality on the ground.

i agree, there are people who shouldn’t drive. i wish i didn’t have to drive.

that simply isn’t feasible in the current reality, tho.

driving can once again be a privilege only after it returns to no longer being a necessity. it is the natural right of all peoples to participate in their society. i agree with the sentiment, driving is a privilege that should be earned. but we should do ground work to make that true, we can’t just ignore the real world and indignantly say whatever we feel like; real life isn’t harry potter and the symbols and words we create bare no direct power over reality. driving is not a privilege in todays america, you don’t get to be the arbiter of decision here. in a practical sense, driving is necessary. the right to transportation and movement evolves with the age, man; it doesn’t get narrower as time goes on in the way a lot of western law seems to want to imply nowadays.

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 6 points 3 days ago

People get their licenses revoked all the time. It is currently a privilege and has been for a while.

[–] Sonotsugipaa@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 days ago

when there exist no alternatives for a large majority of people and their lives

I think their point is that there should be viable alternatives.

[–] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Death statistics?

https://everytownresearch.org/graph/gun-death-vs-motor-vehicle-accident-deaths-since-1999/

This source doesn't go up to 2024, but only fairly recently have guns killed more Americans than cars, each year, and the overall numbers aren't too far off.

Cars certainly cause far more property damage than guns.

Anyone in a car is easily capable of killing another human being or doing them massive injury.

I agree with you that there are many more pervasive and complex issues ... driving (sorry) Americans to be dangerous irresponsible drivers...

But cars are deadly weapons, whether driven as such intentionally or unintentionally.

Maybe people should be more stringently screened and qualified before they are allowed and trusted to regularly use them.

For the record, I think you shouldn't be able to own a firearm without having gone through a certification course, but as it stands right now, only 10 US states require that.

https://everytownresearch.org/rankings/law/training-required-to-purchase-guns/

All states require you complete a certification for concealed carry... but you don't need that to legally buy and possess a gun.

[–] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Yeah, and all the morons from the Midwest stick their thumbs in their belt loops and insist that they really know how to drive in the snow, don'cha know, not like you coastal people.

And yet there isn't a single guardrail anywhere in Minnesota that hasn't got a Chevy Suburban shoved halfway through it.

[–] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

That would be especially funny coming from a Minnesotan aimed at ... at least myself, as a Seattleite.

For starters: It almost never seriously snows in Seattle, so we don't have anywhere near as good an infrastructure for clearing snow.

Not saying the average Seattleite is adept at snow driving... but... Seattle has A LOT of steep hills.

I'm reasonably confident Minnesota is as flat as a pancake in comparison.

(Checked. MN's tallest 'mountain' is 2300 feet. WA's is 14,000. Their 'mountain' is unironically what I would call a big hill. WA has almost 150 mountains taller than 2000 feet, by relative geographical prominence, not absolute height)

A fairly small amount of snow, especially if it can be cold long enough to freeze into ice, and you're looking at something like 30 to 40% of Seattle's roads being either insanely dangerous, or roads that are cutoff by said chokepoints.

I'm talking 18% to 22% grade.

Apparently the steepest road in Minneapolis is 'nearly' 15%.

-.-

That is why a foot of snow basically shuts down Seattle.

Now... going further...

If you live in the PNW and actually try to see all the sights... aka, leave Seattle...

Well you hit the fucking Cascade mountains, where it often snows considerably, the foothills have tons of smaller cities and rural communities with garbage tier snaking roads of extreme grade, and on the east side of the state, they get massive snow dumps all the time, though it is much more flat.

So if you've actually driven or lived around a good deal of WA... you've probably had to encounter a lot more difficult snow conditions than an average MidWest driver.

[–] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

I've driven through Snoqualmie Pass in the snow. Much of Wyoming, also. Yeah, midwesterners have no concept. They just think they do.