this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2023
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[–] DrJenkem@lemmy.blugatch.tube 39 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They're the only hope for getting anything actually done, like the climate change actions taken by Biden.

Then we're fucked. Because idk if you've noticed, but the planet is still dying. We are well on our way to passing the point of no return.

but nobody other than them or Republicans are organized better than a herd of cats or numerous enough to win office, so...

This actually has nothing to do with popularity or ability to organize. Its a problem with how our constitution is written, primarily the fact that we use first passed the post, see Duverger's law.

[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Then we're fucked. Because idk if you've noticed, but the planet is still dying. We are well on our way to passing the point of no return.

You're right. What's been done so far won't fully solve the problem. Better undermine support for people trying to get what can be done, done, and then doom all over the Internet.

This actually has nothing to do with popularity or ability to organize

Nah, even in areas with ranked choice voting, third parties are jokes. Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of reforms designed to allow them a more reasonable and equal access to the political levers of power, but the two most significant third parties are the Greens and Libertarians. Neither one is a political force, and not just because of first past the post voting. Niche, ideologically focused parties will always underperform wide coalitions within democracies.

[–] DrJenkem@lemmy.blugatch.tube 35 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You're right. What's been done so far won't fully solve the problem. Better undermine support for people trying to get what can be done, done, and then doom all over the Internet.

The libs are the ones undermining the progress. It ought to be self evident by now that radical measures need to be taken, and that the markets will not solve the climate crisis, the kind of regulation we need would kill entire sectors of the economy. Even when it comes to moderate improvements, Democrats are obstructed by both the minority opposition and members of their own party (as libs are always quick to remind me).

The Democrats will never be able to do what needs to get done. So you undermine the chance for meaningful change when you tell people, "don't worry, Biden is on it, just vote and everything will be fine".

Nah, even in areas with ranked choice voting, third parties are jokes. Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of reforms designed to allow them a more reasonable and equal access to the political levers of power, but the two most significant third parties are the Greens and Libertarians. Neither one is a political force, and not just because of first past the post voting. Niche, ideologically focused parties will always underperform wide coalitions within democracies.

Which areas? Areas in the US? Yeah, hundreds of years of entrenched power at the local, State, and federal level will do that. Would take time and likely ranked choice at the federal level to change.

[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago (5 children)

"we just need to kill the economy to save the planet" doesn't seem like a productive way to sell reengineering our economy to lead us towards carbon neutrality, doomer

[–] ElHexo@hexbear.net 35 points 1 year ago (1 children)

calls someone a doomer

doesn't want to damage economy for the sake of having a habitable planet for humans

[–] panopticon@hexbear.net 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Someone who believes Biden is the only hope for climate action doesn't need to be calling anyone else a doomer, lmao

[–] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 30 points 1 year ago

"Look, I'd love to have a habitable planet, but have you considered the stock market?"

If you don't think a global problem that's intertwined with every aspect of the economy might require a similarly far-reaching solution, you aren't taking this seriously.

[–] DrJenkem@lemmy.blugatch.tube 27 points 1 year ago

I too want to reengineer the economy.

[–] jack@hexbear.net 27 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

lead us towards carbon neutrality,

Jesus Christ even the things you think are the goal are woefully weak and limited. You think "carbon neutrality" will solve climate change? We need massive carbon negativity.

[–] Flaps@hexbear.net 27 points 1 year ago

As opposed to killing the planet to save the economy lmao