this post was submitted on 24 Aug 2023
304 points (96.9% liked)
Asklemmy
43968 readers
1056 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
Search asklemmy ๐
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- !lemmy411@lemmy.ca: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Tobacco smoking.
Having to wear clothes in public.
Tobacco smoking, at least cigarettes, is quickly becoming de-normalized in some countries. In New Zealand they did a ban with current smokers grandfathered in essentially. In the US, there is more and more hostility to smoking.
People will cough and act dramatic when you smoke outside, you can't smoke inside of anywhere but bars anymore (and only some bars at that). Smoking is seen as low brow - typically mostly done by the lower rungs of society.
Zizek talks about this a bit and claims it's ideology. You are compelled to enjoy and be a hedonist - but never too much.
Personally, I quit smoking a long time ago but I think alcohol is much worse but doesn't get nearly the same treatment.
People can get sick from secondhand smoke. Yes, it's true that alcoholics can affect people around them, it's not as obvious as blowing smelly smoke in someone's face.
Typically only in cases where they are getting repeated exposure. For example children who live with parents who smoke inside. Someone breathing in cigarette smoke in passing in a well ventilated area is probably no more dangerous to their health than eating fast food or drinking soda.
I'm much more concerned with drunk driving and the thousands of annual deaths associated with that. Not to mention drunks beating their wives or getting into fights, etc
Smoking is bad, no doubt. But I really do think the societal rubberband snap is a strange effect we're having. Almost everyone used to smoke - now nobody does. It's very interesting.
Basically, we're in agreement. My point is that people see A blowing smoke into B's face and instantly notice it, while drunk driving deaths are a statistic they read about. It's not logical, but most human reactions aren't logical.
Good point.
I'm not convinced the alcohol is the determining factor in shitheads being shitheads. Domestic abusers wouldn't disappear if alcohol did. Drunk driving, maybe, but it would be replaced with other substances or forms of negligence.
Drinking responsibly does have short term social and mental benefits when used responsibly, and less severe long-term health issues.
I'm not advocating for alcohol consumption by any means, but it seems obvious to me why it's viewed more positively than smoking. It helps people enjoy life. Smoking doesn't, really.
Alcohol causes increase of domestic violence. You're right in that there exists a certain number of shitheads regardless of alcohol. But alcohol reduces inhibitions. While sober, they may just yell at their wife. Drunk, they hit them. This is a well-studied effect.
And sure, alcohol can act as a social lubricant and the majority of people who use it don't commit violence.
But amplified over the whole population we're talking about tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people affected by alcohol related abuse - depending how you define abuse.
As for positive from cigarettes, it can act as a mild antidepressant and mild stimulant. Helps you focus. Something like 80-90% of schizophrenics smoke. They think it's because it acts as sort of a self-medication.
It also helps during the process of quitting other substances. For example rehabs give away free cigarettes and vapes.
Having said all this, I'm not trying to start a crusade against alcohol. It's perfectly natural to use. And the government shouldn't ban it - that's stupid for a number of reasons. Philosophical to practical.
But I'm just saying people are very negative to smoking and positive to Marijuana and alcohol when statistically speaking alcohol does a lot more damage
About 60% cases of violence where the police has to intervene have to do with alcohol.
The thing is that drinking it looks innocent, since you have to drink (water) in order to stay alive. But alcohol is literal poison.
See my other commnets in this thread.
Also, we've tried alcohol prohibition and the results were worse.
Too true. That makes me worry about tobacco prohibition as well. And just when the world is starting to move on from cannabis prohibition, it seems like we really need to keep making this mistake eh
The nudity taboo is a problem of sexist sexualisation and sexualised violence, among others.
Imagine being able to walk to the cafe with your friends in scorching heat without having to bother with constricting, sweaty and heavy clothing without being sexualised or ridiculed or attacked (things that also happen when clothed, btw).
Climate change is sorting that out
Im just happy some peoples dirty butts hasn't made direct contact with the seat im sitting in. Thats a good reason we have to wear clothes imho. Cleanliness and respect for sharing the world with others makes it okay to have rules about attire in public spaces.
But the whole showing skin being so goddamn taboo for real people, while at the same time near nudity and sexuality on publicly visible advertising boards is completely ok, thats a double standard I can't understand.
And the modern fear of showing non-sexual nudity to kids. Its very noticeable how bad an effect it have had on our society by now: Kids are hesitant to change and shower after gym. People don't undress and do a proper shower before entering public swimming pools.
My problem with smoking is 1. it's addictive so most people doing it don't even want to so banning it will only stop addiction and 2. second hand smoke
It's called public indecency for a reason
You can get addicted to second hand smoke, I remember when my dad said stopped smoking in the car and going through withdrawal when I was nine or so. So when I started smoking in my teenage years it was really just a relapse