OHCHR estimates that between mid-April 2014 and 31 May 2016, at least 9,404 people, of which up to 2,000 are civilians, have been killed as a result of the conflict. The vast majority of civilian casualties, recorded on the territories controlled by the Government of Ukraine and on those controlled by armed groups, were caused by the indiscriminate shelling of residential areas, in violation of the international humanitarian law principle of distinction.

Na better believe Prigozhin, that guy never told a lie or said anything that was totally wrong.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What do you believe your source to say, exactly? That Ukraine shelled indiscriminately? If so, you should read it again.

[+] gnuhaut@lemmy.ml -6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Yes it says that exactly, unless you think the "armed groups" shelled themselves.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Maybe the armed groups headed by known criminals (look at who ran those "people's republics") shelled the civilians? They also shot down MH-15.

[+] gnuhaut@lemmy.ml -6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You do realize that direction of the shelling wouldn't be hard to determine? If you look at the side of a shelled building you know roughly which direction the shells are coming from. In your worldview OHCHR was duped by some elaborate conspiracy of repeated false flag attacks. That doesn't even pass the sniff test. Also, why bring MH-15 into this? You cannot discredit my OHCHR source by bringing this up, what's the connection there?

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The OHCHR report you linked doesn't state who bombed, from what I skimmed. But I'm sure you read it and can point me to such a finding?

Speaking of MH-15, who slaughtered people in Bucha? Which side is bombing shopping centres during the day and apartment buildings in the night? We all know that. And now you come with a source which does not establish that Ukraine bombed civilians and you want me to believe it wasn't the Russian side which has a well-established pattern of doing the exact thing? In Chechnya, in Syria, in Afghanistan?

I'm not saying that you can't -- if the evidence is there, go ahead, post it. But actually post evidence and not what you decided was evidence without even reading half-way through the thing.

[–] gnuhaut@lemmy.ml -4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't think I can go any more official than the OHCHR, and I don't think I can convince you of your good vs evil narrative with any source. People got shelled, it's obviously implied they got shelled by the other side, and no theory to the contrary is put forward in the report.

I'll let you ponder this: This would be the first conflict in which one side commits all the war crimes. Even more curious, the side which commits no war crimes has a bunch of volunteer units literally using Nazi, SS and Bandera iconography. You know, the guys that marched hundreds of thousands of civilians into the woods and murdered them. Does that seem plausible to you?

[–] WldFyre@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago

You're talking about the side that has the Wagner group, right?