this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2023
176 points (88.6% liked)

sh.itjust.works Main Community

7732 readers
1 users here now

Home of the sh.itjust.works instance.

Matrix

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

If so, was it polled somewhere?

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] YeetPics@mander.xyz 28 points 1 year ago (5 children)

It's where the far right go to play dress up as LGBT and call everyone else a nazi/be ruzzian apologists and blame the failings of the communist ecosphere on white western liberals.

It's basically the opposite of a sincere environment.

[–] CmdrShepard@lemmy.one 21 points 1 year ago

Yes it should be renamed to ConcernTrolling101

[–] krolden@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

please show me anything remotely right wing on hexbear and ill show you my private parts

[–] YeetPics@mander.xyz 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Threatening to show your private parts to a person you don't know because they made a forum comment you didn't agree with is the most right wing shit I've ever seen.

I rest my case

[–] krolden@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

no my point was that you wont do it and neither will I

[–] mycorrhiza@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Why are you deliberately lying, while knowing you're lying?

[–] JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's what deliberately means...

[–] mycorrhiza@lemmy.ml -2 points 1 year ago

I wrote it like that for emphasis because I was mad

[–] JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How do you define far right? I usually think of it as pro authoritarian. And that seems to be commonly true on hexbear. Though they don't necessarily acknowledge that authoritarian regimes like Russia and North Korea are authoritarian.

[–] mycorrhiza@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Far right, as opposed to neoliberal, means fascist to me, where fascists:

  1. Hold reactionary social views — are racist and sexist and homophobic, etc.

  2. Support capitalism and despise socialists — see what happens to socialists under every fascist regime in human history. Hitler was in bed with big business, and some of the first people he put in concentration camps were socialists, communists, and labor organizers. In Indonesia, more than a million communists were murdered with US backing, a mass killing detailed in The Jakarta Method and a documentary called The Act of Killing. Socialists were also slaughtered in Guatemala, Nicaragua, Chile, El Salvador, Argentina, and Bolivia. This is incidentally why the US so often supports fascist regimes — they kill socialists.

  3. And yes, are authoritarian, but being authoritarian is not what makes them fascist. What makes them fascist is that they use authoritarianism in service of the above positions.

[–] JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Than I think we disagree on the defining traits of far right.

[–] mycorrhiza@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Is Cuba far right?

They just passed the most comprehensive pro-LGBTQ rights package in history.

Cuba doesn't allow you to create a pro-capitalism party and start passing around leaflets saying "we should sell all our resources to American businesses," because if they allowed this, the CIA would spend hundreds of millions of dollars a year funding and training that party, installing agents into the leadership, co-opting local movements, publishing newsletters full of slander and propaganda, and doing who knows what else.

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Is Cuba China or the russian federation? Because we both know those are the nations depicted here.

[–] mycorrhiza@lemmy.ml -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

the claim was that far right = authoritarianism.

Cuba is authoritarian because they have to be. Allende's Chile was not authoritarian, and guess what happened? The US coup'd Allende and installed a fascist dictator who threw socialists out of helicopters and tortured them to death in stadiums. The PKI under Aidit in Indonesia were a peaceful socialist movement. What happened? Aidit was killed, and over a million Indonesian socialists were rounded up and butchered with American backing.

As for the Russian Federation, yes, their government is right wing. Putin is a homophobic capitalist reactionary. If you say this on Hexbear, you will find that everyone agrees. Go try it if you doubt me.

As for China, the more you learn about China and its government the less you'll want to give a simplistic take about China in a thread like this — but the short answer is no, they are not far right. They have some Confuscian cultural baggage but are increasingly progressive on social issues, and after decades of state-sanctioned capitalism to pull in foreign investment and evade the sort of economic warfare that hamstrung Cuba and the USSR, they are, at least ostensibly, adopting an increasingly anti-capitalist posture. As for Xinjiang, again, it's a complicated topic and I'm not an expert, but I do know that a lot of the worst claims have been demonstrated to be bullshit, from sources like Adrien Zenz and Radio Free Asia. Even the UN concedes there is no program of mass killing or organ harvesting. It's definitely still bad, but there's enough bullshit that I really don't want to wade into it here.

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I am used to this definition of "far right":

"Far-right politics, or right-wing extremism, refers to a spectrum of political thought that tends to be radically conservative, ultra-nationalist, and authoritarian,"

[–] mycorrhiza@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

authoritarian towards what purpose

towards being radically conservative and ultra-nationalist.

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I make no distinction on authoritarian ideals.

[–] mycorrhiza@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"authoritarian ideals"

communists don't want to be authoritarian, but the alternative is to die.

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You do know that being authoritarian in order to be anti ultra national makes no sense right?

[–] mycorrhiza@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

you're the one who came up with that reasoning. I said they are authoritarian to avoid being destroyed by capitalists.

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

authoritarian towards what purpose

towards being radically conservative and ultra-nationalist.

Yes, please let us all forget what you typed not 20 min ago.

[–] mycorrhiza@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I was talking about far-right governments

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes, and China and russia are far right due to the authoritative government. I don't care why the government is authoritarian, oppression is oppression.

[–] mycorrhiza@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Was the Civil War far right? Was Reconstruction far right?

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Oh and here it is, the American shit pulled out of storage.

YES! The world looks upon your fetid empire of cheese and right wing politics and weeps.

[–] mycorrhiza@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

you're dodging the point so blatantly here. Was it inherently right wing to use violence to force the confederates to free their slaves and disband their secessionist army, and then to use political repression to interfere, however ineffectively, with southern efforts to keep their way of life alive after the war. Was the authoritarian means they used – warfare and political repression — inherently right wing, even though the objective was to free enslaved people.

yes, I know that many in the union were racist too, and grant and sherman participated in the genocides of american indian tribes, and all of that. that's not what we're talking about though, we're talking about authoritarianism, and whether authoritarianism specifically is what makes something right wing.

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You are dodging this entire topic. I will not discuss any USA history, and I stand by my statement. Authoritarian is far right, all of these examples were authoritarian actions where taken are by the current definition far right.

[–] mycorrhiza@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Is Cuba right wing? Yes or no. You dodged that question right at the start and changed the subject to China and Russia. Is Cuba right wing.

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Yes. Since the leadership has transitioned to a family rule and has become authoritarian in protecting the brother, it by current definition would be far right.

Edit: also you are confusing me with another person, I was the one that pointed out you cherry picking your nations.

[–] mycorrhiza@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm speechless tbh. I don't know what I can say to someone who calls Cuba right wing. You are inventing your own language.

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Read the current definition and dispute it then. They if I am not mistaken might have a new leader as of 2021, this would go a long way to prove they are not an authoritarian government.

[–] mycorrhiza@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

the ideological commitment of the Cuban government is to achieve the equality of human beings, by abolishing capitalism and fighting bigotry. America, just across the water, has made it necessary for them to adopt a degree of authoritarianism to protect themselves. It is actually fucking absurd to call them right wing. Take care, I don't want to continue this.

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No America comparison, do the work. I believe in you.

[–] mycorrhiza@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's not a comparison, I am saying America is hostile to Cuba, and Cuba adopts authoritarian measures to counter American subversion. America has been trying to topple the Cuban government and starve the population for decades. You have reddit disease where you're really condescending despite not knowing anything.

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 1 points 1 year ago

Cool, now we have reddit in the mix. What would you say to the fact I have never once posted on reddit?

I am saying (and asking you to disprove) that any country that is authoritarian is by definition far right (as the left/right spectrum is defined by the use of authoritarian practices or lack there of).

[–] awwwyissss@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

despise socialists

If you're real people who genuinely support socialism, you should know you're making a lot of people hate socialism.

That's just one of the things I truly resent your garbage, authoritarian community for.

[–] mycorrhiza@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

you're making a lot of people hate socialism

That's not how it works. Your beliefs are your own. You either want workers to control production, or you want owners to control production. You decide that based on your own moral convictions and understanding of the world.

[–] awwwyissss@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes, just stick your fingers in your ears and ignore my point.

[–] mycorrhiza@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 year ago

you don't have a point. your point is that we're annoying and people don't like us.

[–] mycorrhiza@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I also used to have a long comment showing that the user was lying, but it disappeared.

Since the mods don't appear to have removed it, and it's not in the modlog, I'm reposting it here:

5 day old thread where all of hexbear agrees they hate trump

older thread where all of hexbear celebrates trump getting covid

old thread where all of hexbear celebrates Rush Limbaugh's death

I'm basically picking threads at random because the entire site is full of posts and comments expressing the direst hatred for right-wingers and fascists.

Some of the top comments from the first link:

https://hexbear.net/comment/3839449

I would say 100% of Hexbear posters believe Trump should be immediately summarily executed. In the mean time, though, he's a great comedic subject.

========

https://hexbear.net/comment/3843515

None of us support Trump, just as none of us support Putin. But there is a sort of overcompensation in reaction to naieve and simplistic liberal narratives that might make it seem like we do.

Leftists get frustrated with the worldview that imagines, to steal a phrase, that Trump is Voldemort and Biden is Harry Potter. Anti-capitalists oppose the Bourgeoisie and Trump and Biden are both in service to them. It isn’t even simply that they are both capitalists - they are both neoliberals, who enthusiastically pursue the goals of neoliberalism - the transfer of wealth and power from the working class to the bourgeoisie, the enforcement of Western imperialism on a global scale, the withering away of society through austerity and privatisation, etc.

Of course it’s fine to support the democrats with the aim of harm minimisation. But liberals are wilfully blind to the fact that the system itself is not ‘rotten’ but rather functioning as intended, and that the scale of change required to have any hope of addressing climate change, wealth inequality, the descent into fascism and so on, cannot come from within liberal ideology at all let alone from the democrat party. Trump is kind of funny too in the way that he infuriates liberals by openly unveiling reality. For example, no-one cared when Obama was putting children in concentration camps, because it was hidden away behind a bunch of shiny rhetoric about hope and change. But when Trump does the same thing and celebrates it, when he brings the racism and inhumanity of the US state into the light and declares fuck those kids, liberals are forced to see the true nature of their beloved country which their ideological fantasies would usually repress. The blatant hypocrisy of their rage is, from the perspective of cynical leftists, both amusing and bewildering.

========

https://hexbear.net/comment/3840542

This will echo what others have said: I think Trump was a horrible president, and him being of the capitalist class means I oppose him in a political economy sense. However, the stuff that he did that was bad was bog standard Republican shit: any other Republican would have also cut taxes, deregulated industry, and installed far right whack job judges. And I also think Democrats have done horrible shit; better/worse comparisons are mostly useless as they brush over specifics.

However, I do think he’s fascinating, both in that he may be the perfect reflection of the American political body, and because he highlights fundamental contradictions in nominal American liberal and conservative politics that causes both his detractors and supporters to be extremely neurotic about him. He represents what liberals profess to be the ideal (coastal, urban, private school educated, Ivy League grad, made his money in NYC real estate; shit, any big money Dem donor clicks at least three of those boxes), and what conservatives profess to hate (urban, non-religious, elitist, arrogance), yet the former hate him and the latter love him.

For liberals, it’s that he exposes the lie that elite education credentials stewed in urban culture must always produce socially progressive and competent technocrats, which is why they steadfastly insist he’s some Manchurian Candidate Russian plant because they need to see him as an abnormality and not reflective of the gross underbelly of the meritocracy. For conservatives, he exposes that for all their rhetoric they really love the idea of elites and hierarchy and being lessers to the titans of industry and the state. They just don’t want those titans to be brown, Jewish, or female. So they need to built a weird, cultish mythology around him as an ubermensch, anti-elite elite as to keep up the illusion of them being against hierarchy. All this neurosis is both highly illuminating, and really fucking funny.

[–] YeetPics@mander.xyz -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] awwwyissss@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago

Triggering or maybe "dunking" to use the mocking language the "haxbears" love so much

[–] mycorrhiza@lemmy.ml -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

My big comment debunking yours is gone and there's nothing in the modlog, what the hell? It's even gone from my comment history. It had votes, it was definitely successfully posted and appeared for a while

*Found it in the lemmy.world modlog, which makes no sense, because I am not a lemmy.world user and this is not a lemmy.world thread, so they shouldn't have the ability to remove a comment from my comment history

I happened to still have it open in a tab I never refreshed, here's what it said:I realize this won't matter, because you have a mental wall up against recognizing that anyone might have reasons to attack your beliefs from the left, but

5 day old thread where all of hexbear agrees they hate trump

older thread where all of hexbear celebrates trump getting covid

old thread where all of hexbear celebrates Rush Limbaugh's death

I'm basically picking threads at random because the entire site is full of posts and comments expressing the direst hatred for right-wingers and fascists.

Some of the top comments from the first link:

https://hexbear.net/comment/3839449

I would say 100% of Hexbear posters believe Trump should be immediately summarily executed. In the mean time, though, he's a great comedic subject.

========

https://hexbear.net/comment/3843515

None of us support Trump, just as none of us support Putin. But there is a sort of overcompensation in reaction to naieve and simplistic liberal narratives that might make it seem like we do.

Leftists get frustrated with the worldview that imagines, to steal a phrase, that Trump is Voldemort and Biden is Harry Potter. Anti-capitalists oppose the Bourgeoisie and Trump and Biden are both in service to them. It isn’t even simply that they are both capitalists - they are both neoliberals, who enthusiastically pursue the goals of neoliberalism - the transfer of wealth and power from the working class to the bourgeoisie, the enforcement of Western imperialism on a global scale, the withering away of society through austerity and privatisation, etc.

Of course it’s fine to support the democrats with the aim of harm minimisation. But liberals are wilfully blind to the fact that the system itself is not ‘rotten’ but rather functioning as intended, and that the scale of change required to have any hope of addressing climate change, wealth inequality, the descent into fascism and so on, cannot come from within liberal ideology at all let alone from the democrat party. Trump is kind of funny too in the way that he infuriates liberals by openly unveiling reality. For example, no-one cared when Obama was putting children in concentration camps, because it was hidden away behind a bunch of shiny rhetoric about hope and change. But when Trump does the same thing and celebrates it, when he brings the racism and inhumanity of the US state into the light and declares fuck those kids, liberals are forced to see the true nature of their beloved country which their ideological fantasies would usually repress. The blatant hypocrisy of their rage is, from the perspective of cynical leftists, both amusing and bewildering.

========

https://hexbear.net/comment/3840542

This will echo what others have said: I think Trump was a horrible president, and him being of the capitalist class means I oppose him in a political economy sense. However, the stuff that he did that was bad was bog standard Republican shit: any other Republican would have also cut taxes, deregulated industry, and installed far right whack job judges. And I also think Democrats have done horrible shit; better/worse comparisons are mostly useless as they brush over specifics.

However, I do think he’s fascinating, both in that he may be the perfect reflection of the American political body, and because he highlights fundamental contradictions in nominal American liberal and conservative politics that causes both his detractors and supporters to be extremely neurotic about him. He represents what liberals profess to be the ideal (coastal, urban, private school educated, Ivy League grad, made his money in NYC real estate; shit, any big money Dem donor clicks at least three of those boxes), and what conservatives profess to hate (urban, non-religious, elitist, arrogance), yet the former hate him and the latter love him.

For liberals, it’s that he exposes the lie that elite education credentials stewed in urban culture must always produce socially progressive and competent technocrats, which is why they steadfastly insist he’s some Manchurian Candidate Russian plant because they need to see him as an abnormality and not reflective of the gross underbelly of the meritocracy. For conservatives, he exposes that for all their rhetoric they really love the idea of elites and hierarchy and being lessers to the titans of industry and the state. They just don’t want those titans to be brown, Jewish, or female. So they need to built a weird, cultish mythology around him as an ubermensch, anti-elite elite as to keep up the illusion of them being against hierarchy. All this neurosis is both highly illuminating, and really fucking funny.