There are a multitude of social, legal, and economic policy changes that need to happen to make societies more resilient against this kind of culture war shit in the future. For extant populations the only way to de-radicalized them is with education, whether that's voluntary or otherwise.

I'm certainly going to get down voted to oblivion, but the Chinese model is worth looking at. No civilization in human history has provided a higher standard of living to a larger population of individuals.

I like the idea of a true secular humanist end state, but as populations explode, I think we need a system that can function and deliver value at scale first; then we can gradually expand technological and ideological infrastructure for more direct democratic decision making.

It strikes me that finding ways to expand ideological freedom and democratic participation in the Chinese model would be orders of magnitude easier than scaling something like the Nordic model to more than a billion people.

[–] ScoffingLizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I thought China had a huge population of folks without running water or electricity.

[–] TimothyOilypants@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Why do you believe that?

[–] ScoffingLizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 weeks ago

I was told by a person who is a bit more cosmopolitan than me. However, with all the back and forth in the comments, and knowing that China has digital comm restrictions, we'll never know unless we spend a lot of time there ourselves. One way or another, there is probably propaganda involved.

[–] AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I looked into the electricity thing, apparently in 2014/2015 they reached essentially 99% coverage. They all have water but the issue is how clean the water is. Like 70% - 80% is questionable.

Don't get me wrong, China definitely has its problems.

[–] TimothyOilypants@lemmy.ca -1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

You're claiming that 80% of the Chinese population lacks access to clean water? You're gonna need to provide a source on that incredulous claim.

[–] AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I just googled it dude.

[–] TimothyOilypants@lemmy.ca -1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Yet you can't provide a source...

[–] GardenGeek@europe.pub 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

And if you were in good faith you could have invested these 2 sec yourself.

https://www.travelchinaguide.com/essential/water.htm

https://www.thechinajourney.com/can-you-drink-tap-water-in-china/

https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4441/15/21/3709

[–] TimothyOilypants@lemmy.ca -1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

So 1 actual study from 3 years ago, which concludes that the water specifically in Wuhan meets the countries safety standards and 2 unsourced travel blogs...

You are spreading propaganda in bad faith, as expected

Go away bot..

[–] GardenGeek@europe.pub 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Why are you asking for fact sources if you plan on igorning them anyway?

Nvm, why do I even ask...

[–] AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

Yup, you just can't win with these people. Yell for a source then downplay it when somebody posts one. It's funny cuz I was actually trying to defend China since they've gotten electricity to most of their country and it STILL wasn't good enough.

[–] TimothyOilypants@lemmy.ca -2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Because as expected, the sources don't support the initial claim...and you know that because you made your claim without any, then scrambled to try and find some that supported your presupposition.

Maybe you're just ignorant and stubborn, maybe you're a bad faith actor intentionally spreading misinformation; that's up for other people to decide.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Your bullshit doesn't just stand uncontested, it's not other people's responsibility to validate your lies.

[–] AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

No, you just don't like the results so you have to attack them. Can you give ONE criticism of china? Or is it a perfect country with no flaws and anybody who disagrees is a paid bot??

These aren't extraordinary claims and you're not even trying to have a convo in good faith. It's funny you call everyone who disagrees with you ignorant and stubborn when you're the one without access to info thanks to the great firewall. But let me guess, that doesn't exist and tienemann square never happened and Taiwan isn't a county and Hong Kong needed to be liberated?

You're bullshit won't go uncontested either, better have someone ban us from this instance too so you can spout your propaganda bull shit in peace.

[–] TimothyOilypants@lemmy.ca -2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I'm Canadian you fuckwit...

Your search term is literal confirmation bias presented by AI...

Did you not learn the scientific method wherever you were educated?

Develop a hypothesis.
Design experiments to disprove your hypothesis.
IF you can't disprove your hypothesis with extensive peer reviewed experimentation, then it might be true.
Rinse and repeat until you have overwhelming evidence disproving any other natural explanation.

The fact that you just played all the anti-China greatest hits demonstrates that you are predisposed to be critical of other cultures and will actively seek out information exclusively to confirm your bias... Grow up.

[–] AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I told you from the start I just Googled the info but you kept demanding sources. And if you're not Chinese it means you could've Googled the exact same thing but you just wanted me to do research for you and waste my time. And another poster gave you THREE linked sources and you just ignored them lmao!

You're a Canadian larping as a CCP propagandist? Weird hobby but sure. Still havent made any criticism of china btw.

[–] TimothyOilypants@lemmy.ca -2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

I have read all 3 of those sources AND Googled "what percentage of the population of China has access to safe drinking water" and NONE of the results agree with your claims... That's the point.

You're either lying, or too stupid to use the internet safely.

You're stuck in an echo chamber and you don't even realize it. I'm trying to fucking help you learn how to think for yourself and do REAL research and your only response is ad hominem attacks...

[–] AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

So your saying tapwater in china is safe to drink? That's really what you're trying to argue for this whole time?? Well I guess people believe the earth is flat so you can really believe whatever you want.

[–] AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

And yet you can't be bothered to take 2 seconds? I'm not asserting the percentages as absolute fact chill out.

The issue with water in China isn't that people don't have access to any, it's that some don't have access to clean water. And of course they're working on making it better.

[–] TimothyOilypants@lemmy.ca -1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Except I already know the claim is bullshit... Hence the challenge.

You're a propaganda bot.