this post was submitted on 13 Aug 2026
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Boycott US

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[–] chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world 16 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Chinese people are living under a much worse surveillance state. I'm not trying to downplay the US's problems, but they are NOWHERE near China's circumstance.

[–] draco_aeneus@mander.xyz -1 points 1 day ago (2 children)
[–] ZDL@lazysoci.al 17 points 1 day ago (1 children)

He's simultaneously right and wrong. (Source: I live in China.)

Where he's right: there is a LOT more surveillance here than in the USA. When I walk the 9 minute walk from my home to the subway I've counted in the past 17 surveillance cameras out in the streets alone (not including the cameras in the subway station, in other words). I'm not sure that there's anything like that kind of density of government cameras anywhere in the USA other than, perhaps, Langley or the Pentagon or places like that.

Where he's wrong: the way the surveillance is used is very different. License readers, speed cameras, stop light cameras, etc. etc. etc. in the USA seem to be focused on finding people to punish and then punishing them with, usually, fines. It's a way of lining the pockets of police officials and contractors, in short. The vibe here is completely different. I don't know anybody who's received a fine by the mail. I don't know anybody who, in fact, has had any police problems that trace to surveilled actions. What I do know of is people who've been caught doing something the regular way (like, say, stirring up shit in a bar and then fleeing) who then get surveillance footage used as evidence against them.

Now of course this surveillance state is likely used to monitor and collect dissidents, but those are circles I don't hang out in, so I have zero information about it. (And anybody outside of China has even less.)

[–] Rothe@piefed.social -2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Where he’s wrong

Now of course this surveillance state is likely used to monitor and collect dissidents, but those are circles I don’t hang out in

So you are stating that they are wrong, while simultaneously saying you don't know anything about it. And then applying that appeal to ignorance to everybody else in an attempt to forestall any claim that of course the authoritarian one-part state of China is using their ginormous surveillance apparatus to quell political dissidence.

[–] ZDL@lazysoci.al 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I say they are wrong and I clearly delineate where my knowledge ends.

As opposed to people who claim to know everything that goes on inside China without having once set foot in it.

The first is called "intellectual honesty".

The second is called "being American".

[–] kbal@fedia.io 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Uh, what exactly was said that you thought was wrong?

[–] ZDL@lazysoci.al 2 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

I agreed that the Chinese live under a far more massive surveillance state than Americans. The issue is that the vibe of it is completely different from the USA's. I would be super paranoid about surveillance equipment in the USA being anywhere around me because I know that it's used basically to extract money from the citizenry in the guise of "fines" that line the pockets of police officials and their cronies in the consulting world.

Here, despite being under surveillance from practically the moment I leave my building's front door until I reach my workplace or another person's home or the like I've never, not even once in 25 years, had that surveillance intrude into my life. I have, however, lived through the period before the surveillance was put into place and where theft of many kinds (bicycles and scooters were what I saw happening most) was commonplace.

The issue is that the Chinese government is all about "social stability" and they're smart enough to know that if surveillance was used America-style—as rent extraction, basically—that this leads to instability. So they very publicly use it against crime, selling it as a net positive to their citizens. The vibe is completely different.

(Note: I'm not denying that it's weaponized against dissidence. Dissidents cause "social instability" and … well, yeah. Guess what the Chinese government is allergic to. I just lack any direct information about this.)

[–] kbal@fedia.io 1 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Well I don't know your situation but just in case it is useful I would remind you to consider the possibility that "dissidents" of some kinds that the state would punish if they were found out might be more common than you imagine.

[–] ZDL@lazysoci.al 1 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

I do consider the possibility.

Do you consider that the number of dissidents here might be far lower than you believe?

[–] kbal@fedia.io 2 points 18 hours ago

Of course — most of my info comes from people who left there for Canada, not exactly an unbiased crowd.

[–] NaibofTabr@infosec.pub 15 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

You got it:

China maintains the largest and most sophisticated mass surveillance system in the world. Surveillance is primarily conducted through government entities, although corporate surveillance in connection with the CCP and Chinese government is also prevalent. China monitors its citizens through Internet surveillance, camera surveillance, and through other digital technologies. As of 2023, the country had over 700 million surveillance cameras. The surveillance has become increasingly widespread and grown in sophistication under Xi Jinping's administration. In the 2020s, China started integrating artificial intelligence into its surveillance systems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_China

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Firewall

The People's Republic of China (PRC) censors both the publishing and viewing of online material. Many controversial events are censored from news coverage, preventing many Chinese citizens from knowing about the actions of their government, and severely restricting freedom of the press. China's censorship includes the complete blockage of various websites, apps, and video games, inspiring the policy's nickname, the Great Firewall, which blocks websites. Methods used to block websites and pages include DNS spoofing, blocking access to IP addresses, analyzing and filtering URLs, packet inspection, and resetting connections.

The government blocks website content and monitors Internet access. As required by the government, major Internet platforms in China have established elaborate self-censorship mechanisms. Internet platforms are required to implement a real-name system, requiring users' real names, ID numbers, and other information when providing services. As of 2019, more than sixty online restrictions had been created by the Chinese government and implemented by provincial branches of state-owned ISPs, companies and organizations. Some companies hire teams and invest in powerful artificial intelligence algorithms to police and remove illegal online content.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_China

The government has censorship over all media capable of reaching a wide audience. This includes television, print media, radio, film, theater, text messaging, instant messaging, video games, literature, and the Internet. The Chinese government asserts that it has the legal right to control the Internet's content within their territory and that their censorship rules do not infringe on their citizens' right to freedom of speech.

As of 2026, the World Press Freedom Index ranks China 178th out of 180 countries in regard to press freedom and terms it the "world's largest prison for journalists". Freedom House ranks the Chinese press as "not free", previously stating that "state control over the news media in China is achieved through a complex combination of party monitoring of news content, legal restrictions on journalists, and financial incentives for self-censorship".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_China

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_censorship_abroad

Human rights in the People's Republic of China (PRC) are severely curtailed. Freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, freedom of assembly and workers' rights are restricted by the government. The Chinese political system is authoritarian, with no freely elected national leaders, and repression of political opposition, as well as a lack of an independent judiciary, rule of law, and due process. Human rights abuses by the Chinese government are prevalent, with extensive censorship, mass surveillance, and repression of ethnic minorities and religious groups, including Christians, Muslims, Tibetan Buddhists, Uyghurs, and groups the government deems as "cults" such as Falun Gong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_China

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_concentration_and_internment_camps#People's_Republic_of_China

[–] chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world 2 points 23 hours ago

Thanks, friend! I'm not nearly as calm when I reply to bad faith arguments.