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Lefty Memes
An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of "ML" (read: Dengist) influence. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.
Serious posts, news, discussion and agitprop/stuff that's better fit for a poster than a meme go in c/Socialism.
If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.
Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, updooting good contributions and downdooting those of low quality!
Rules
0. Only post socialist memes
That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme. Please post agitprop here)
0.5 [Provisional Rule] Try to use alt text or image descriptions to allow for greater accessibility
(Please take a look at our wiki page for the guidelines on how to actually write alternative text!)
We encourage alternative text (from now referred to as "alt text") to be added to all posts/comments containing media, such as images, animated GIFs, videos, audio files, and custom emojis.
EDIT: For files you share in the comments, a simple summary should be enough if they’re too complex.
We are committed to social equity and to reducing barriers of entry, including (digital) communication and culture. It takes each of us only a few moments to make a whole world of content (more) accessible to a bunch of folks.
When alt text is absent, a reminder will be issued. If you don't add the missing alt text within 48 hours, the post will be removed. No hard feelings.
0.5.1 Style tip about abbreviations and short forms
When writing stuff like "lol" and "iirc", it's a good idea to try and replace those with their all caps counterpart
- ofc => OFC
- af = AF
- ok => OK
- lol => LOL
- bc => BC
- bs => BS
- iirc => IIRC
- cia => CIA
- nato => Nato (you don't spell it when talking, right?)
- usa => USA
- prc => PRC
- etc.
Why? Because otherwise (AFAIK), screen readers will try to read them out as actually words instead of spelling them
1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here
Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.
2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such
That means condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.
3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.
That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" (read: Dengists) (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).
4. No Bigotry.
The only dangerous minority is the rich.
5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.
6. Don't irrationally idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.
- Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:
- Racism
- Sexism
- Queerphobia
- Ableism
- Classism
- Sexual assault
- Genocide/ethnic cleansing or (mass) deportations
- Fascism
- (National) chauvinism
- Orientalism
- Colonialism or Imperialism (and their neo- counterparts)
- Zionism
- Religious fundamentalism of any kind
I'm in absolute alignment about that Great Filter thinking. There may in fact be no way to escape it, why would sociopathic behaviour not be a universal trait in species with language? And then how could that fail to lead to societies similar to what we have now where they do infinitely more harm than good.
I think the failure mode would be totally dependent on the (sadly imaginary) method of control of dark triad behaviours. Let's say there's an implant which suppresses human actions based on these traits. Then the interpretation of bad actions or the control of the chip algorithm are big failure modes. Or if, say, we fight a great war in the near future and realise universally that the reason was allowing these personalities to get into power, so we adopt a species-wide Vergangenheitsbewältigung. Art could imitate life then since we're now seeing Germany potentially voting in Nazis IRL as WWII slips from living memory. I honestly think the question is so ripe with potential I wish I had the time or the experience necessary to write a sci fi novel myself.
Additional comment to add: One other line of questioning comes to mind in the "what plot could we imagine where suppressing sociopathic / psychopathic / narcissistic traits in humans to the extent they are kept from amassing power leads to severe problems for society down the line" - what are people with such traits uniquely good at, if anything, which results in a net gain for society?
There's plenty of pop psychology which points out that people with at least some of these traits tend to be concentrated in roles like leadership (which may not be entirely due to self-selection) and first responders.
Just to look at one example, an additional trait (beyond limited prosocial emotions and willingness to violate the rights of others) which may or may not be necessary, and is not sufficient on its own, to constitute psychopathy is relative fearlessness. People with this trait typically aren't so fearless that they act completely irrationally with regard to self-preservation, but they very measurably experience far fewer of the effects of fear in dangerous situations. You can see how this may be useful among police, firefighters, soldiers, etc. How does this trait relate to the other traits in question? Does suppressing the other traits like limited prosocial emotions also suppress this trait, thereby depriving a society of General Pattons? And so on.
Yeah, if we accept that leaders and heroes are generally afflicted by this, then the suppression itself would cause a lack of those people in society, which could have really interesting effects. Lack of parasocial role models to project on to, as a subtler one than the obvious lack of leaders and front line troops.
As you say, the method of suppression could lead to some interesting emergent properties too. I keep thinking of Soma from Brave New World or Prozium from Equilibrium, or even social suppression like in 1984, and how difficult it is portrayed to be to suppress human nature, and how it seems to bubble up no matter what you do. That's a pretty nice theme that would surely fit in to any mechanism that would suppress "bad" traits.
Hmm, that question of inevitable filling of the niche in a species with language is a good one, and one I hadn't thought of.
In part it seems to be downstream of questions about what sociopathy and/or psychopathy actually is, which have been in debate for decades and still very much are. "Limited prosocial emotions" is necessary but not sufficient. Willingness to lie and violate social norms established to preserve the rights of others at a cost to the actor, probably also necessary, I'm not sure (no coffee yet) if sufficient in combination with limited prosocial emotions.
My housemates have 3 cats, one of whom I would describe - as a cat lover who has lived with many cats the majority of my life and has one in my lap right now - as the cat equivalent of a violent psychopath. (I actually like that psycho cat and she likes me as much as she's capable of liking anything.) Since she's a cat, she's not capable of the sociopathic pattern of abusing and/or manipulating social structures at a high level, e.g. by deception, to further her aims.
She is basically limited to violence, either direct (you touch her, and if she's not in a good mood she shreds your hand) or instrumental as instrumental as an animal without complex planning ability can be (she stalks the cat currently in my lap who she hates, and maintains a more or less continuous campaign of suppressing fire to minimize that cat's territory in the house; if I leave the house for a few days, she quickly steps it up because I am the human in the best position to intervene in her suppression efforts).
In humans there is likely some distinction between those who are violent psychopaths with little to no manipulative behavior, versus ones with psychopathic traits (limited prosocial emotions, problems recognizing and thinking about certain emotions in others) who are manipulative and may or may not be violent. The question this brings me to is, is language necessary for such socially manipulative traits like the much-ballyhooed "superficial charm," and others like tendency to deceive, to arise? I'm not sure. And then subsequently, in a language-using species, is deceptiveness based on language and theory of mind - lying - for personal gain such an attractive niche that it must always arise?
I'm sure there's a lot lacking about my ramble here, it's early in my day. And I might be off topic. But I've been researching these traits as a layperson for decades because my life has been strongly impacted by people with psychopathic and narcissistic traits in several contexts, and thus I've developed an interest in understanding how their minds work.
I've had similar experiences with psychopathic humans and cats.
I think, broad strokes- humanity is probably very similar to any other social intelligent species with language. Obviously no evidence of this exists, but evidence that we aren't in a privileged or special position in the universe abounds, so it's a fair assumption. With that out of the way, the question just becomes, "why is this behaviour such an effective strategy?" And we can kind of see why, these people are often stupendously successful. So, is that because of human societal factors being susceptible to this kind of manipulation? Your cat example is a brilliant illustration of why that's not the case: because animals do it too.
You've made some really interesting points there, I don't know if you're in agreement but I tend to think now that, unless dark triad personalities are somehow shown to be a property of mammals by some mechanism, it's fair to say it's probably present in extraterrestrials too, and it's a strong candidate for a great filter, because, hey, look around.