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Woman who accused Jay-Z of raping her aged 13 says claims were false
(www.theguardian.com)
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this post was submitted on 25 Sep 2026
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To me, the problem is when people systematically do not believe people accusing others of wrongdoings on the premise that we live in a society with a principle of "innocent until proven guilty". All true, but if you are victim of sexual violence and don't have ironclad proof or the means to defend yourself legally, you then can't do anything to prevent future victims.
The solution is really quite simple in my view and I don't think I've heard anyone put it like this:
You do not need proof to help protect people. You do need proof to punish people.
"Believe victims" and "Guilty until proven innocent" are not contradictory statements, they are the two policies we should be applying to the alleged victim and alleged abuser simultaneously.
Exactly! Unrelated, is your username a reference to a hidden track on one of the Nirvana records?
Yes
Sounds nice, how do we protect people in this scenario?
What’s your alternative, and how do we protect people abuse in that scenario?
What do you mean? They said "you do not need proof to help protect people". Ok, how do we help protect people? The scenario was a victim of sexual violence that can't provide ironclad proof or have the means to defend themselves in a legal way, but want to protect possible future victims. I literally don't know what they meant. Can you help?
We should help to empower people to defend themselves before they become victims, either for the first time or for the 50th time. There are lots of ways.
It's really not that hard to think of ways that don't involve throwing potentially innocent people in jail. You can also just ask people what you can do for them. They probably know already and better than you do.
Great tips. It doesn't really align with a lot of sexual violence that occurs or how to protect people that have been victim and want for future victims to not happen though.
Even if we did all of what you suggest for people I know, they still had their drink spiked, were abused by the coach/medical practitioner/celebrity/rich asshole, were groped at work by a superior, etc. Some of them went to make a police report and nothing happened, some of them heard of someone else down the line that got abused in the same way by the same person. What I know is none of them saw their abuser facing any meaningful consequences. Statistics on sexual violence seem to agree with my anecdotal evidence.
Do you have any tips for these situations, that are more common than people think? What happens when a relative say they have been predated on, but they don't have, like I said, ironclad proof or means to defend themselves legally? How do you help protect people then? Do you wait for a definitive legal proof of it or do you believe what they are saying? In the same way, I feel, when accusations are numerous, seem credible, are coming from people that don't know each other and don't seem to profit in any way from it, I find it hard to say that I need to wait for a trial or something. I am not saying that in the case of this person with Jay-Z it applies, I know nothing about it. What I know is people that could do basically nothing but pass the word to not choose that coach for their kids, if you know what I mean. And they have to live with the knowing that kids are still probably being predated on by that coach.
I get your position though. Let's do everything we can to _prevent _ anything from happening. That's great and I agree. What do we do when it happened?
When it does happen, we help them create as much distance as possible and generally do everything I mentioned already to protect them from it happening again. You gave too many examples / questions for me to address them all but I think we are more or less on the same page here.
If I heard my relative was sexually abused by another relative, I would do everything in my power to prevent them ever being in the same room again. You don't need any proof to do this unless it's like a parent/child situation in which case I'd call CPS. You don't need hard proof to call CPS either. Allegations should trigger action to protect and serious investigation. What they shouldn't trigger is punishment.
An innocent person in jail or facing life ruining consequences due to a faulty legal system or extrajudicial punishment is a travesty society shouldn't / can't bear.
Thanks for your response. I do believe that an innocent person in jail due to extrajudicial punishment is to be avoided, so I am not saying we should believe everyone all the time.
My point is more in the sense that I do get it when victims are pointing out people doing bad things to them. I don't want people being "canceled", lose their job, go to prison or whatever for unsubstantied claims. But considering that people are already really quick to blame people who accuse others of wrongdoings, I just think it might further silence victims to go all "when there is no ironclad proof, we should make accusers pay" or something. Not saying you implied that.