this post was submitted on 20 Jun 2023
160 points (99.4% liked)

Technology

34629 readers
354 users here now

This is the official technology community of Lemmy.ml for all news related to creation and use of technology, and to facilitate civil, meaningful discussion around it.


Ask in DM before posting product reviews or ads. All such posts otherwise are subject to removal.


Rules:

1: All Lemmy rules apply

2: Do not post low effort posts

3: NEVER post naziped*gore stuff

4: Always post article URLs or their archived version URLs as sources, NOT screenshots. Help the blind users.

5: personal rants of Big Tech CEOs like Elon Musk are unwelcome (does not include posts about their companies affecting wide range of people)

6: no advertisement posts unless verified as legitimate and non-exploitative/non-consumerist

7: crypto related posts, unless essential, are disallowed

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] somedaysoon@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

You pay them for a certain throughput, that is your limit, if they can't provide that limit then they need to advertise and sell the actual limit they are comfortable providing.

[–] pingveno@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago

I'd argue that the FCC's recent Broadband Consumer Label proposal is more important. Part of the problem with broadband as a market is that providers are able to bury the true cost and product under reams of legalese that no one ever reads. Economists refer to this as asymmetric information, where one party to a transaction has vastly more information than the other. Forcing providers to show all costs and restrictions up front would go far in preventing them from fooling customers.

I would also like it to be harder for providers to change their rates. It's frustrating to constantly have rates jacked up when I'm not seeing much of an increase in service. I finally left Comcast over their rate increases and calls trying to upsell me on services I had no interest in.

[–] tal@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

If they're advertising a guaranteed rate, sure -- and there are contracts that exist where one does buy guaranteed rates (usually over some period of time, though). Some businesses may buy that. But if you look at a typical consumer ISP, they usually aren't selling that. They'll have something saying that the speed isn't guaranteed, or "Internet speeds up to" or something along those lines.

Lemme grab Comcast, for an example.

googles

https://www.xfinity.com/learn/deals/internet#Pricing&otherinfo

Internet: Actual speeds vary and are not guaranteed.

The ISP I use (small, most people won't be using it) says "Up to X speed" next to each price on their pricing page.

Like, consumer ISPs are not going to generally sell guaranteed-rate service, and most customers aren't going to want to pay for what that would run. That's not just a function of some users using a lot more than others, but because they're also overselling the infrastructure. They maintain infrastructure sufficient to handle load if customers are only using a portion of that maximum -- that is, if every one of their customers decided to simultaneously saturate their line, even if those customers aren't particularly heavy users normally, they'd simply overwhelm what infrastructure is there.

Now, that being said, I do think that it might be legitimate to ask ISPs to disclose overselling ratio (or maybe there's some kind of better metric, like how percent often their internal infrastructure to an average customer is above N% utilization). Or to explicitly disclose soft caps or something. Those might be useful numbers in helping a customer compare ISPs. But they aren't presently selling and won't be providing guaranteed sustained rates -- that's just the reality of what kind of Internet service that can be provided at what consumer prices are.

[–] somedaysoon@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The ISP I use (small, most people won’t be using it) says “Up to X speed” next to each price on their pricing page.

That's because they actually can't guarantee speeds. It has nothing to do with throttled connections. Even ISPs that say they will not throttle and have no limits will have that verbiage because they are not going to guarantee a number when there are so many variables with WiFi and customer owned equipment... this verbiage is there mostly to protect some yahoo running a speedtest 100ft away from his AP through 5 walls and calling in for support on it.

Nothing you are talking about is relevant to this discussion of throttling, guaranteeing speeds is completely different and not something I am arguing for. I'm saying if you sell me a 500Mbps connection, and I get those speeds, then you sold me 500/8x60x60x24x30 MB worth of data for a month and I should be able to achieve that if you sold it to me. If you can't handle it then it needs to be clear, up front, there are limits and throttling going on. You can't advertise a plan as being unlimited, and than throttle it. That is bullshit.