this post was submitted on 26 Sep 2023
317 points (92.3% liked)
Technology
58801 readers
3326 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
... is where he lost me. He can call back when he has to choose between electricity and rent.
This is a weird take. Just because someone is (or has been) successful he can't speak about or for socialism?
You can't be successful and a socialist? Is that it? That's a very narrow and simply wrong view which has resulted in a lot of damage in societies which adopted it.
Socialism needs succes stories. Otherwise, what's the point? Mediocrity for all? That will never fly or become popular.
He was also the financial advisor of sorts at Valve, the company that takes a 30% of all their pc game sales.
20% after the initial $50 million. The same company that has used that revenue to revolutionize Linux as a gaming platform. Same company that helped fix graphics api integrations. Same company that actually cares about their consumers and the gaming ecosystem?
Pretty sure all those things happened after Yanis left, so I don't think it's fair to contribute those changes to him.
The problem is he doesn't walk the walk. His success comes from capitalism. He's very well off because of capitalism.
So you can only critique capitalism if you're unsuccessful? That doesn't make any sense.
Sure you can. It's just that it comes across a whole lot less hypocritical coming from someone who hasn't first exploited that system themselves.
Why would someone talk about the pitfalls of a system while benefiting from that system?
What? I don't know if it's my age or what, but I can really tell when I'm interacting with someone younger than me.
Which country doesn't engage in that economic arrangement?
By choice or by circumstance? The rich profit from capitalism therefore they use their wealth to maintain the system that is benefiting them the most. The poor have to participate in varying degrees just to survive.
You think people choose to bust their asses for $8/hr?
You admit then that there is nowhere else in Europe for Yanis to have not participated in capitalism, unless he somehow miraculously managed to stop the dissolution of Russia and it's friends in the 90s.
Look, the only thing I'm getting from you is the realization that you should not play baseball. You're so focused on making your own point or trying to zing me that you're missing the point entirely. I'm not disparaging your intellect, which you clearly are trying to prove to me, an internet stranger, but your need to champion for this guy for ANY reason whatsoever is off-putting.
I'm championing nobody, I'm questioning your silly trumptard-tier statement that Yanis is successful because of capitalism. What on earth does that even mean? You can't level a charge of hypocrisy there when we all live in that system. Which was why I asked you which country doesn't engage with capitalism.
Guy is either delusional or a troll. Either way, too many terminally online morons on the Internet to tell
Isn't this the former finance minister of Greece? Not just some guy.
Yup. He's the guy who told the rest of Europe that Greece shouldn't have to pay back their bailout loans. You know, the ones other countries have paid with their own taxes. That's a great way to get very popular in your own country, and being hated by the rest of the continent.
The island home might be a result of his time at Valve (the company that has the biggest share of pc game distribution, Steam - which takes a 30% cut on all sales). I don't think it was funded by people's tax money.
Pretty sure he argued that Greece shouldn't have to use the bailout loans from other countries to pay back banks, but instead can use it to invest them in public infrastructure to rebuild their economy. Instead the EU forced them to use those loans (said taxes) to pay back rich companies, and to cut their investments in social programs to put the country into an even deeper mess.
Please educate yourself before talking about other people's countries
Care to elaborate? I didn't say anything about other countries, just about Yanis and some of the claims he made.
Here's the perspective from one European country: Greece needed a bailout, our country loaned them 14 billion euros, and pretty much directly after accepting the money, Mr. Varoufakis told the creditors he didn't want to pay it back.
If you have a different perspective, please elaborate, because "educating oneself" is too broad a directive.
You can start by watching a few Greekonomics videos that are very objectively pointing out the way you are enslaving our country for your benefit and pinning the blame on us. You are piling us up on debt and enforcing rules against the people and small businesses, making it impossible for any real growth to happen when none of the simple people have enough money to spend on new businesses and goods. You are supporting the politicians that are in favor of your measures, because the Greek people work like dogs to create value that you will reap, and the government and rich class get to keep the change.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
a few Greekonomics videos
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
I don't have time to watch a few videos right now, but I'll take a look later.
Can you explain how, by agreeing to take a loan, the other party is responsible for piling a debt upon you? If I go to the bank to get a loan and then don't pay it back, it's not the bank who is the asshole, it's me for agreeing to a contract I can't or have no intention of fulfilling.
I get being upset with your government who agreed to a deal you might deem shitty, or with the party who offered the deal in the first place. But to take the money, yell "fuck you, I'm not gonna pay you back", and then claim the other party are the wrong for giving you a deal you agreed to just seems very fucked up to me.
First off, I'll start with the fact that PASOK ruined the country by spending massive loans with ridiculous irresponsibility, that's Greece's fault not Europe's.
After that, Greece was now filled with debt it couldn't pay off. Obviously not wanting to go bankrupt, the only way forward was taking another loan in order to "breathe air into the economy". However, the Bailout Programmes actually did everything but that. By forcing Greece to put massive taxes on people and businesses, cutting wages and pensions, worsening work conditions, cutting social spending, the people were brought to their knees unable to get up. When no one has money, it's only natural that innovation completely stops, no one risks opening a business, banks don't risk giving out loans, and society crumbles while the common folk starve.
You might ask, was it a mistake, was the IMF stupid? Not at all. They were very successful in mitigating their own risks from Greece going bankrupt or leaving the Eurozone, mainly in erasing their dependency on Greek bonds. They never cared about our country or them getting their money back, they just cared about keeping us in a depression as long as their banks stay unaffected.
Man, people like you would have dismissed Engels for the same reason.
And they should have because Engels was not only a Capitalist with contradicting class interests to our-
But a lot of his shit is just terrible, for example "oN aUtHoRiTy", the "book" that really shows Tankies can't read.
Engels should be dismissed the fuck out of.
To be fair, rich (and effectively retired) people have more time to think about larger issues, whilst the rest of us are trying to make enough for rent and food. So while one can make the argument that he is out of touch, one can also argue that if it were up to the single parent working two jobs to think about global issues and write books about them, it probably wouldn't happen.
Google “how many islands in Greece” and bathe in light of knowledge .
Maybe make your point yourself, instead of asking people to Google it for you?
The point is that Greece is a fucking island lmfao
I googled "how much does a Greek island home cost?" instead, it told me they are as cheap as 3 million euros, and I don't think that includes the house or other facilities.
I'm not sure I get your point.
I Google better and find a detached house for 250k euro on a Greek island. It's the 4th results on a Greek real estate website for the region I didn't have to look far
Fair enough. I'll admit I didn't try very hard in trying to figure out what point they were trying to make and only went with the first result. Judging by their refusal to elaborate, I think I made the right call by not trying harder.
You’re doing a great job of making yourself look very silly.
I suppose that's one way of not answering the question.
Remind me, was Marx a part of the struggling proletariat?
The answer is no, he was a human being that cared about others besides him and his own.