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Supreme Court targets more of your rights as it begins a new term
(peoplesworld.org)
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this post was submitted on 05 Oct 2023
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politics
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This is a quote from Thomas Jefferson,
"...The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independant 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants..."
No mention of guns or arming everyone. He was likely thinking of something like the French Revolution, which did NOT involve arming everyone with a gun.
You must really know what you're talking about huh
Apparently to a higher degree than you do if you honestly believe those to be pro-gun statements or directly applicable to a world where the country has the most powerful standing army in the history of humanity 🤷
Yeah I'm sure he just meant like swords and sticks and stuff. Cuz that's how we won the Revolutionary War!
Everyone knows that.
Fun fact: taking arms doesn't necessitate personal ownership and use of said arms.
Yes I'm sure Thomas Jefferson, a man whose ideas are literally strewn throughout the constitution, in the wake of the REVOLUTIONARY WAR, just forgot about the 2nd Amendment when saying that.
Think about what you just said.
I'm sure he remembered the 2nd amendment just fine. The 2nd amendment that's for protecting the state via militias with muskets and cannons, not personal ownership and use of firearms the likes of which they would have been unable to even IMAGINE at the time, let alone predict the consequences of.
For someone pretending to speak for the founding fathers, you sure like to ignore the carefully decided on text of the amendment they wrote in favor of a completely hypothetical interpretation that people who sell guns came up with 🤦
I never said that, but you ascribing scenarios that a long dead man had in mind as opposed to taking their words at face value really tells me that you really, really know what you're talking about, a lot.
Now you're just projecting. At face value, he doesn't mention personal ownership of guns, nor does he even imply anything like that.
The reason I mentioned the French revolution is that other than the US independence war itself, it's THE rebellion against the government of Franklin's time and thus more likely than not he's inspired by it and/or the aforementioned war fought by well-regulated militias, NOT individuals who owned guns for their own personal use.
Projecting what?
We are discussing a Thomas Jefferson quote, not Ben Franklin, and in the quote we are discussing he literally says "let them take arms."
You're projecting the fact that you're unreasonably assuming he meant personal ownership and use onto me by claiming that I'm unreasonably assuming that he didn't.
The fact of the matter is that "let them take arms" in no way means "let them personally own guns for their own personal use".
In fact, given the historical context, it's much more likely that he meant as militias fighting a guerilla war or using them in a coordinated revolutionary effort, neither of which necessitates personal ownership of guns.
I never unreasonably assumed he meant personal ownership. I just thought you know, since you can read a dead mans mind and know he was talking about the French revolution or something you must really, really know what you're talking about.
"Let them take arms" can be reasonably construed to mean "let them own guns". Saying "in no way" is categorically incorrect. Saying it might not mean that is not unreasonable, but saying it definitely doesn't is absolutely unreasonable, which is what you're saying.
What he meant, what was going on in his head, we can't know. Well, except for you apparently, because you really know what you're talking about. But the rest of us, all we can do is take his words at face value.
This is not going anywhere except nitpicking, clarification and more nitpicking etc, so let's just stop now rather than continue to waste each other's time.