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this post was submitted on 15 Nov 2023
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To be fair to them, it's not as though the Israel Palestine conflict is black and white. It is pretty well known to be one of the most complex conflicts in human history.
Just about any statement that isn't very well researched and laboriously constructed is like 95% likely to be reductive to some and offensive to others.
I'm sure someone reads this post as reductive, and I am only tangentially referring to the conflict.
Edit: beyond this comment we see people continuing to try to distill a multigenerational war down to a paragraph. Brilliant. Y'all should start writing history books since y'all have such a firm grasp on it all!
No it's perfectly simple: Hamas, Kahanites and the like are fascists and ruin it, on both sides, for everyone, with their warmongering.
The only real mistake you can make in this conflict is see it as "Muslims vs. Jews" or "Palestinians vs. Israelis": It's decent people all over against assclowns and even entertaining those two "vs." there is playing right into their hands.
Side note: Did you know the victims of the Hamas attack were largely Smolanim? Hippie Kibbutz kind of people, travelling into Gaza doing good work, just like those next to the West Bank travel into it to help Palestinians with olive harvests to make it less likely they get shot at by Settlers. Netanjahu and his Kahanites couldn't give less of a fuck about them, which you also see reflected in them ignoring their families, they're like the #1 critics of the government right now.
I think some citation is necessary for the assertion that the Jewish people were not historically from the Levant region, and have no ancestoral "claims" in Jerusalem and the surrounding territory. I would love to see some anthropology studies or papers on the bronze age Israelites being proto-Asyrian or Persian and not one of the Canaanite tribes.
I'd also like to point out that basically every war ever has been and will probably be a land grab, wrapped up in some rationalized or causative skin. That stretch of land in particular has been conquered over and over again throughout human history, and the inhabitants forcibly immigrated and emigrated during many of these changes of power. Mesopotamia has been birthing empires since humans discovered it and it became a cradle of human civilization.
I sure would, and that is what I'd argue for. I'd love it if both sides would agree to revert to the '67 borders, or even draw up and negotiate new borders if that is required at this point. Both sides have equal "claim" to the area, and this is a needless pseudo-civil war. Without the US and Israel's surrounding Arab neighbors pouring money and ideology into it, the original '48 plan may have settled into a workable 2 state solution, but who really knows.
I also know that I have no skin in the game on either side, and honestly my opinion doesn't matter beyond the fact that the US is allies with Israel as a democracy in the middle east that they can leverage towards favorable geopolitical stability, and which I have little power to effect. I just wanted to ask about what appeared to be dishonest propaganda that tries to conflate Israel with foreign colonizers like England, Portugal, Spain, etc, and erase pretty solidly agreed upon paleo and anthropology. We shouldn't whitewash in either direction.
The conflict itself is really not that complex. It's yet another example of runaway apartheid. The complexity comes from the global power and military positioning considerations for the US and its western alies. But that's not really related to the conflict itself, but rather to the bloodthirsty maw of imperialism
Antisemitic Zionist (yes, that's a thing) Christians are a pretty big factor, too.
I'm definitely guilty of reductionism and offending people with my views. I don't hold tightly to them, overall. I don't like the indiscriminate murder of the innocent, but I also think that comparing this recent exchange of pleasantries between Israel and Hamas to Nazi Germany is offensive in and of itself.
Of course, the rhetoric that both sides of this filthy conflict use serves to display the deep hatred that exists ay the core of it.