this post was submitted on 23 Nov 2023
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I'm calling out the government for wasting funds and using literal slave labor... and you're more concerned that I edited their traditional headdress into the picture.
If you think the US doesn't use literal slave labor, you haven't looked at how our prison systems operate.
But, nobody was talking about the US tho, where they...
Like I see what you're saying and all. But that doesn't make the UAE less of a bad thing. Also this meme is funny.
How is the US relevant here
Because nihilism is cool!
hello whataboutism, what exactly about any of this post has anything to do with the US? There are many countries around the world that profit from slave labor, where is that in your whataboutism?
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It's a fair point. Racist caricatures are racist to people beyond the government. It's not okay
Would you get this upset about someone adding a beret and a baguette to a meme about France's government?
Or a sombrero on a meme about Mexico's?
A tartan bonnet on a meme about Scotland's?
A tyrolean hat on a meme about the German/Austrian governments?
A fez on a meme about Turkey's government?
People add shit like this all the time. If you think there's a racial hatred component to it then you need to re-evaluate yourself.
For some reason the sombrero seems maybe a teeny bit racist.
Lol I'd agree with that. I think it's because sombreros are rarely worn and has an established history of being used with racist caricatures.
Why not blackface on a meme about black people? It's literally just that. These examples are literally just that.
It seems silly but when you're part of the ignored minorities such as Asians, Indians, or Arabs etc. and everyone thinks picking on you, on how you sound like, on what you wear will make for a good joke; it really makes you uncomfortable.
Really, it's not funny. It just makes us feel more ostracized.
If you think blackface and photoshopping a fez onto a stock image character are the same then you are so deranged that you're beyond reasoning with.
I think it's a bit unfair to call them deranged, but I agree with the sentiment that they are vastly different.
the grand nagus is wise, where is your staff that I may kiss it
I'm curious, how is it that adding a keffiyeh to the meme is racist?
Edit: @GetPsyched@lemmy.world - You were so vocal about calling people racist. Why are you now shying away from explaining why.
I'm not calling people racist. As i explained previously I'm calling using a racial stereotype to not be okay.
A lot of people aren't racist on purpose, but the way they interact or joke about a certain group of people sometimes falls in poor taste.
Instead of people getting defensive, they should just try to understand that these people get racially abused everyday by people not even trying to because it's just so ingrained into their heads that what they say or what they do is normal.
Hell just yesterday I saw a post about middle easterns and one of the replies was something something AK47. There wasn't a single reply against it. People don't give a fuck about these minorities because no one chastises them about racist against them. Actually they just get more stubborn and act racist harder.
It hurts for a lot of people to read the words that i said because for many people, they cannot accept within themselves that some of the things they think or say about other minorities might be hurtful, and might make the people of these minorities feel uncared for or hated against.
I'm only trying to call out people's actions, i never meant to label anyone a racist here; sorry if people felt that way. We all do things that aren't the most savory to other people -- and i think that it's our responsibility to fix that or change that, just like how using the word or stuff like fell out of favour after people used it for a long time. The backlash was huge, but now people warm up to the changes, it just takes time.
It may all seem like a waste of time, but i think it was worth mentioning it in the comment section of this post. People are still clearly unaccepting of this opinion, and that's fine.
"these people get abused every day" my sibling in christ this meme is about UAE (edited bc I accidentally typed Saudi) royals, hence the headdress that UAE royals tend to wear. I guarantee you neither they nor anyone else is remotely harmed by this meme, sorry for the cliche but you really need to touch some grass instead of going to bat for slave kings
One: this is about UAE, not Saudi.
Two: it uses something a whole ethnicity wears in a meme of negative context, hence hurting the entire ethnicity of people
Three: your tone makes it clear you don't give a fuck about this topic anyways
Four: I don't care about the royals either. Just like when people point out racism of black people in a post about the South African government, it's not because they're in bed with the SA government. This should've been obvious
Yea Idk what I was thinking typing Saudi, I knew what it was I just brainfarted 🐇 I very much do care about racism, which is why I don't care about a meme making fun of slave owners. Just bc the clothing isn't 100% specific to royals doesn't mean it's racist to have it in the meme jfc, if a meme about Putin or Russian oligarchs had a babushka hat on it you wouldn't be wasting energy defending them would you? "I'm not defending them I just don't like racism" you sure as fuck aren't defending minorities, if anything you're just equating them with the assholes the meme is making fun of. Nobody is hurt by this, arab people as a whole aren't being mocked here, just drop it and do something useful or fun
Also are you seriously one of those people that thinks South Africa is committing white genocide? Get a fucking grip reclaiming your land from colonizers isn't fucking racist xD
I mentioned SA just to mention another country.
No extra context
Also it's a bit rude to insult me with baseless reasons such as that. You don't have to point me in a worser light to get your point across
Sorry about that, I assumed you were referring to the negative feelings and actions towards white farmers there as genocide, something I've seen white supremacists and useful idiots do. I wasn't trying to make you look worse, I just thought you were talking about that specifically
"Don't really care about the votes, but surprised to see the people at lemmy are racist as well."
"I'm not calling people racist"
Which is it?
Yes in my first remark i pointed to people being racist rather than just mentioning their actions. My apologies.
Don't really care about the votes, but surprised to see the people at lemmy are racist as well.
But i guess it was obvious anyways, "making fun of Asians and Arabs and non black minorities isn't racism, it's just a joke!"
There's more nuance to this subject than you're implying. It is not the case that either we can't make any reference to race/ethnicity or else Lemmings don't care about racism. Making reference to race or cultural insignia doesn't automatically make something racist.
In other words, there is a middle ground here. Blackface is an obviously hurtful representation of black people that harkens back to when white people saw them as inferior. On the other hand, many middle eastern men wear this particular head covering and there is nothing hateful about it's inclusion into the picture.
I'm guessing that it is being construed as racist because the meme depicts a negative scenario while also including a keffiyeh.
If this was done frequently where a keffiyeh were included in memes or jokes with negative scenarios involving people from Arabic countries it could imply a connection between negative things and Arab people. In that case it could reasonably be considered a racist caricature.
I am wondering if there needs to be an established connection between a depiction and a negative aspect first for it to be racist, or does any depiction of a race or culture in a negative scenario inherently make something racist?
After typing that out I am inclined to believe the latter shouldn't be the case, otherwise essentially any depiction of any negative scenario would be racist.
I think Psyched is just looking for any excuse to get offended and act righteous on the internet.
I can understand that thought, but I think it's wise to first think things through on the assumption that is not the case.
Though, it sure seems that Occam's razor points to this being the case, along with the other user's point of rampant racism towards Arab people causing some to be primed to assume racism.
I will just throw my 2 cents worth of opinion here and gonna say that i think the reason someone might be mad here is that middle easterns do actually face disproportionate racism and I don’t think i need to elaborate on that
The problem is that shitheads see it and go like ‘yA tHese PpL ARe tErrOriSt aND blah blah’, which you can clearly see on other sites
Not to say that other minorities and ethnic groups don’t face the same issue
It’s really more of a problem with ppl than any meme
Yeah, that's a very good point. It does prime people to be particularly sensitive, even if there's not really any racism in the situation.
But the problem is using the whole ethnicity's cultural wear on a meme about a group of people being bad or evil makes people associate all middle eastern people as bad people.
It's just something our brain does, and that's why it's best not to do it in the first place. I'm sure a lot of people have terrible opinions about certain minorities because their friend or their aunt told them about how one person from that race treated them poorly. People always extrapolate that across the whole race.
See, I agree as well that the government in the post is absolutely awful. But just looking at the picture, it just seems to look like a rather insulting caricature of middle eastern people; even if that was something you didn't do intentionally
I think this is a completely logical reasoning. I'd wager that if you had led with this explanation instead of jumping into calling people racist you would have made a better impact.
Also, this reasoning is more along the lines of "may add to racist caricatures" rather than "this is a racist caricature". In that case it makes sense to "avoid just in case" rather than a directly racist act in itself.
If your goal is to educate people to make an actual impact, then avoiding jumping into hyperbole and attacking people directly should be your goal.
Remember to attack the argument or action, rather than the individuals.
Additionally, when someone jumps right into hyperbole and aggressive language towards people, it becomes more of a show as if the goal to be seen as righteous rather than being focused on education and making a real impact.
Wow, I'm amazed that you're having to explain this to people?! I thought we knew this already?? Good on you for taking the time to patiently explain it so clearly for those that somehow missed that memo! Legend! :-)
I’m gonna make fun of Asians and Arabs ALL DAY and your going to just have to take it, pal
Not sure if sarcasm...
I couldn’t think of anything funny to say about Asians.
Thanks but i don't care. I'm just making my point.
Your point is shit