this post was submitted on 09 Dec 2023
1182 points (89.1% liked)
Leftism
2115 readers
1 users here now
Our goal is to be the one stop shop for leftism here at lemmy.world! We welcome anyone with beliefs ranging from SocDemocracy to Anarchism to post, discuss, and interact with our community. We are a democratic community, and as such, welcome metaposts that seek to amend the rules through consensus. Post articles, videos, questions, analysis and more. As long as it's leftist, it's welcome here!
Rules:
- Absolutely no fascism, right wing extremism, genocide denial, etc.
- Unconditional support of authoritarians will not be tolerated
- Good faith discussion about ideologies is encouraged, but no sectarianism
- No brocialism/sexism
- No ableism
- No TERFs/ anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric
- No racism
- No trolling
- No insults, dunking, or personal attacks
- No posting of misinformation, disinformation, or fake news
- Mods have final say
Posting Expectations:
- Comics/memes/shitposts/propaganda are only allowed on weekends
- Try to avoid liberalism unless discussing electoral politics. Even then, try to focus on tactical agreement towards leftist goals
- Only one meta post seeking consensus per person per day
- Posts about a particular ideology are ok, but remember the rules above
- Remember that there is no “right way” to implement leftist theory. This rule does not prevent academic criticism.
- Try to avoid extremely sensitive topics unless approaching them with appropriate care for intersectionality. Use your best judgement, and be prepared to provide respectable sources when having these discussions. Wikipedia is not an acceptable source in these cases.
- Post titles must be meaningful and relevant, except on weekends
Sister Communities:
!abolition@slrpnk.net !antiwork@lemmy.world !antitrumpalliance@lemmy.world !breadtube@lemmy.world !climate@slrpnk.net !fuckcars@lemmy.world !iwwunion@lemmy.ml !leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com !leftymusic@lemmy.world !privacy@lemmy.world !socialistra@midwest.social !solarpunk@slrpnk.net Solarpunk memes !therightcantmeme@midwest.social !thepoliceproblem@lemmy.world !vuvuzelaiphone@lemmy.world !workingclasscalendar@lemmy.world !workreform@lemmy.world
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I have never heard of a job that required no training in order to do it. That's learning a skill. And if you've already trained yourself in how to do it, you've still learned a skill. I can't think of a job that you can do without any training whatsoever.
It's a matter of degree. Comparing the training of a delivery driver or custodian to that of a doctor, engineer, or professor is, frankly, just stupid. This is what is meant by skilled versus unskilled labour.
No one made such a comparison. Again- any training or education is learning a skill. It doesn't matter if it's 8 years in a university or 8 hours as a dishwasher. There is no job I can think of that doesn't require at least some training or education. Can you?
Jobs with minimal training required are unskilled labor.
Was that so hard to understand?
"Minimal training" = learning a skill.
It is skilled labor.
Fucking breathing is skilled labor by your definition.
No. Being trained to do something is learning a skill. It's that simple. I'm not sure why that isn't clear to you yet. How many more times do I need to repeat it?
Ok fine. We want to be obtuse. Let's separate it into minimally skilled and more skilled.
That would be more accurate than what is used now. Why are you so hostile against the idea that people with less skill than you still have skill? It seems like snobbery to me.
Because yall are being pedantic. You know exactly what unskilled labor refers to. But because you want to be pedantic we have to change words to say the exact same thing. Not for a good reason... just cause. I guess all the minimally skilled people were offended?
Yes, I know what the term refers to the same way I know what the term 'stewardess' means, but we decided that was a sexist term, so now we say 'flight attendant.' Language can change. Language that is obviously classist can definitely change. Changing obviously classist language should be done.
And if you still don't agree, perhaps you could tell me where the dividing line is, specifically, between 'skilled' and 'unskilled.' You seem to believe these have precise definitions, so exactly how much training is required to make one skilled?
Lol, ok. Fine, I'll call them low skilled jobs. I'm sure that's so much better, right? It almost sounds worse, but if that's what your want....
Again, what is your problem with people who have jobs that require less skill than yours? Because the only explanation I can come up with is just snobbery.
I have no problem with them at all. What is your problem with having language that provides details about the type of work someone does?
You could have fooled me.
It sounds like you're taking issue with the terminology and not the concept.
Unskilled labor being the kind you learn on the job and any normal human can be trained to do, vetsus skilled labor that requires university/apprenticeship/trade school. It's hours or days of training compared to years of specialized training.
I don't like this particular turn of phrase either, but here we are.
Yes, that's what the investor class thinks. They are wrong.
Yeah I doubt it. I can flip any burger you got, you come design my machine learning algorithms.
If you think you can just walk into any fast food restaurant and start working without anyone showing you what to do, you're naïve. No, of course it doesn't take as much training as working on computers. No one said it did. That doesn't mean it isn't a skill to be trained to use one of those machines.
You and the investor class may think that the only people who are skilled in the labor world went through four years of college, but that is not what a skill is.
That's also not what "skilled labor" means as a term of art, hence my first comment.
Yes, I know, and I am saying that term is wrong and should not be used. All kinds of 'terms of art' have been abandoned because they're bad terms.
The difference is if you require a degree or license or some other certification of non-career training prior to being considered for the job.
You and I have definitely worked for totally different companies then.
Where have you worked where a job requires absolutely no training whatsoever?