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Frankly I don't care. The US wastes trillions of dollars on military spending. We have the most advanced military in the world by a mile but all too often it ends up using it to defend someone else's financial interests or to pad the pockets of people that make their money through a war economy.
Russia can get fucked. Every cent spent on the defense of Ukraine is a fully realized fuck you to our enemy. Ukraine did what we could never do. They essentially removed Russia from the equation. Yeah they have many poorly maintained nukes but they know we will fuck their ass if they touch them. They will not be posing a real threat to anyone for generations.
We aren't spending this money on the American people and we never were going to do that anyway. Our choices are we fund people actually fighting for their life or we allow that money to get sucked into the military industrial complex for no real return. They're already getting theirs out of this, the only question that remains is do you back Republicans that have made up a nothing burger about this money because they've arbitrarily decided this is the 96th hill they'll die on, or do you you want to see the money you pay in taxes actually get put to a meaningful purpose.
Saying that it doesn't go to the American people isn't strictly true. It's not like it's cash shipped across the Atlantic. The money spent on weapons to Ukraine is injected into local American economies where weapons are produced, as wages that let people consume products which goes to the wages of people who sell those products wages in turn.
Frankly, it may come to be seen as, in terms of bang for the buck, the single most effective use of US military funding in history.
Think about it: Russia went from being considered a peer-state of the US to the second most effective army currently conducting combat operations in Ukraine. That’s embarrassing any way you spin it. They have utterly destroyed any real vestige of conventional military power they had, and Ukraine is the one who shattered not only that reputation, but also the capability.
And not just in terms of physical assets - Putin called up training officers and sent them to the front. You just… you don’t do that. It means that instead of taking another year or two to train a new generation of officers to competence… it takes 10, and even then they’re not very good, because all the institutional knowledge those instructors had was lost. The only reason they’re even considered these days is because they’re a nuclear state.
All while letting Rob who works at Lockheed Martin buy a new truck from all the overtime he can clock since the defence industry is working full time. It's not perfect, but it's literally injecting money into the American economy to show Russia what is what without sending any troops whatsoever.
I had not heard that. That is just madness. Its got to be one of the worst cases of unchecked hubris in history. I mean in the 1600s someone would have plunged a dagger into his neck by now. Usually people see the writing on the wall and get to finding a more competent leader but he's spent decades building this impenetrable circle of loyalists that know they must be absolutely devoted or they're going to be next on the defenestration block.
No one dares tell these men about their collosal fuck ups. Nope, everything's going great, we will have this done in 2 more months sir!
If not for nukes I think he would have been long dead by now. If not by the Russian people then surely nato would have rolled over Russia and we would be well into the process of 'denazifying' the country.
That argument is just a variant of the Broken Window Falacy.
The resources that are spent in stuff that's blown up could otherwise be spent in stuff that provided years of benefit to people, so it is wasted - sure the money itself circulates within the US economy, but what matters is were you spend human time and material resources, not the movement of trade tokens per-se.
In Economic terms, making weapons for Ukraine to use against Russia is a good investment, especially for Europa, because it stops Russia from advancing further, killing people and destroying stuff, not to mention gaining control over lot of resources, not because of some economically falacious argument that has been disproven decades ago.
There's no fallacy, since I'm not pretending that isn't the case. Saying it doesn't go to the American people isn't strictly true. It's an investment into the defense industry. That is wages and jobs. Those equal consumption further down the line. Could the resources be spent somewhere else? Sure. But I didn't argue against that. I specifically took issue with saying that the money doesn't go to the American people.
The people on the right, not the politicians but the actual people, hear how America is pretty much shipping cash to Ukraine (because the news they watch leave out the facts) which is where they get the idea of "Zelenskiy buying cocaine on their tab". We have to make clear when we discuss these things that America is investing this money in local production. The products of those jobs are what is shipped to Ukraine. The money stays in America, and Zelenskiy isn't buying a new yacht with them (which is one of the talking points I've heard from the right).
I do not disagree that there's a discussion to be had, but I think it's important to be clear about what the discussion actually is. I'm also in strong doubts about whether it needs to be a choice between weapons and other things. The United States can do both. The fact that both isn't done speaks to the idea that not investing in arms for Ukraine wouldn't mean that other investments were made instead.
For clarity:
That said, the World is as it is, Russia acts as it acts, so in overall other nations have to spend that money in weapons and military because of them anyway, and even in a pure, cold "financial analysis" (i.e. moral aside) the single most efficient way of achieving the desired result (stop Russia from fucking things up for everybody else) is by helping Ukraine militarily.
In fact, I think Europe (were I am) is still not doing enough in that front.
My point was entirelly on, in abstract, that using a country's money to make weapons is generally not a good investment from an economic point of view.
It really is the cheapest way to destroy an enemy.
There really is only win win for the US.
We also got to see what Russia was capable of in a war, which was priceless.
We spent 5% of our military budget to help Ukraine take out most of our biggest adversary's army, and the Republicans think it's not worth the cost.
I don't believe anyone is born stupid.
They're trained to be. Either as business owners by access to private clubs etc. Or as plebs by 'news' 'media'
I think he meant not sustainable for Russia
It's only about that. Inbetween was some "foreign interests" (called "oil") but that's history now.
Well, that and kicking China.
That money still goes to the military industrial complex. It’s used to buy US equipment and ordnance for Ukraine. And the government ain’t buying it at cost. People in the US military industrial complex are getting richer of this war.