this post was submitted on 27 Jan 2024
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Why switch?

I played with the idea of switching for quite a while. Having switched my daily driver from Windows maybe 6-9 Months ago I made many mistakes in the meantime.

Good and bad

This may have led to a diminshed experience with ubuntu but all in all, I was very pleased to see that Linux works as a daily driver. Still, I was unhappy with the kind of dumbed down gnome experience.

Problems

There were errors neither I nor people I asked could fix and the snap situation on ubuntu (just the fact that they’re proprietary, nothing else).

Installation

Installing debian (and kde) was easier and harder than I expected. The download mirror I used must not have been great although its very close to my location because it took ages although my internet connections is good.

Apps

Since I switched to Linux, I toned down my app diet a lot. Installing all my apps from ubuntu was as easy as writing a short list and going through discover. Later I added flatpak which gave me a couple apps not available through discover (such as fluffychat). The last two I copied directly as appimages.

Games

I was scared that the „old kernel“ of stable debian would be a problem. As it turns out, everthing works great so far, a lot better than on ubuntu which might or might not be my fault.

Instability

Kde does have some quirks that irritate me a bit like installing timeshift (because I tried network backups which dont work with it and the native backup solution does not seem to accept my sambashare) led to a window I could only close by rebooting.

Boot time

What does feel a bit odd is the boot process. After my bios splash, it shows „welcome to grub“ and then switches to the debian start menu for 3 seconds or so, then shows some terminal stuff and then starts kde splash and then login. This feels a lot longer than ubuntu did. Its probably easy to change in some config but its also something that should be obvious.

Summary

So far I‘m incredibly happy although I ran into initramfs already probably because of timeshift which I threw out again. I might do a manual backup if nothing else works. My games dont freeze or stutter which is nice. All apps I had on ubuntu now work on debian and no snaps at all.

TL;DR: If you feel adventurous, debian and kde are a pretty awesome mix and rid you of the proprietary ubuntu snap store. It also doesnt tell you that you can get security upgrades if you subscribe to ubuntu pro. Works the same if not better.

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[–] IronKrill@lemmy.ca 1 points 10 months ago (2 children)

You don't need to be defensive about this. I'm just sharing my experience, I'm not trying to insult Debian or it's maintainers. And yes I believe anything can happen considering the crazy bugs I have seen get shipped. Windows wiping One Drive files, multiple Steam bugs on Linux that can wipe your system, etc. Or it may be my choices during install, but it is still unusual compared to all of my Ubuntu installs.

Anyway, I took another shot at it and it still happened. I downloaded the 12.4.0 net install that is on the front page of debian.org. Installed two different times in Virtualbox, once using the graphical and once using the CLI install, using two different mirrors. I unchecked Gnome and ticked LXDE during installation (as I did before), because that is the DE I wanted. I would hope that would not change bashrc settings. Tried sudoing and got the exact same error.

Here's the generated .bashrc which I have not touched.

.bashrc

# ~/.bashrc: executed by bash(1) for non-login shells.
# see /usr/share/doc/bash/examples/startup-files (in the package bash-doc)
# for examples

# If not running interactively, don't do anything
case $- in
    *i*) ;;
      *) return;;
esac

# don't put duplicate lines or lines starting with space in the history.
# See bash(1) for more options
HISTCONTROL=ignoreboth

# append to the history file, don't overwrite it
shopt -s histappend

# for setting history length see HISTSIZE and HISTFILESIZE in bash(1)
HISTSIZE=1000
HISTFILESIZE=2000

# check the window size after each command and, if necessary,
# update the values of LINES and COLUMNS.
shopt -s checkwinsize

# If set, the pattern "**" used in a pathname expansion context will
# match all files and zero or more directories and subdirectories.
#shopt -s globstar

# make less more friendly for non-text input files, see lesspipe(1)
#[ -x /usr/bin/lesspipe ] && eval "$(SHELL=/bin/sh lesspipe)"

# set variable identifying the chroot you work in (used in the prompt below)
if [ -z "${debian_chroot:-}" ] && [ -r /etc/debian_chroot ]; then
    debian_chroot=$(cat /etc/debian_chroot)
fi

# set a fancy prompt (non-color, unless we know we "want" color)
case "$TERM" in
    xterm-color|*-256color) color_prompt=yes;;
esac

# uncomment for a colored prompt, if the terminal has the capability; turned
# off by default to not distract the user: the focus in a terminal window
# should be on the output of commands, not on the prompt
#force_color_prompt=yes

if [ -n "$force_color_prompt" ]; then
    if [ -x /usr/bin/tput ] && tput setaf 1 >&/dev/null; then
	# We have color support; assume it's compliant with Ecma-48
	# (ISO/IEC-6429). (Lack of such support is extremely rare, and such
	# a case would tend to support setf rather than setaf.)
	color_prompt=yes
    else
	color_prompt=
    fi
fi

if [ "$color_prompt" = yes ]; then
    PS1='${debian_chroot:+($debian_chroot)}\[\033[01;32m\]\u@\h\[\033[00m\]:\[\033[01;34m\]\w\[\033[00m\]\$ '
else
    PS1='${debian_chroot:+($debian_chroot)}\u@\h:\w\$ '
fi
unset color_prompt force_color_prompt

# If this is an xterm set the title to user@host:dir
case "$TERM" in
xterm*|rxvt*)
    PS1="\[\e]0;${debian_chroot:+($debian_chroot)}\u@\h: \w\a\]$PS1"
    ;;
*)
    ;;
esac

# enable color support of ls and also add handy aliases
if [ -x /usr/bin/dircolors ]; then
    test -r ~/.dircolors && eval "$(dircolors -b ~/.dircolors)" || eval "$(dircolors -b)"
    alias ls='ls --color=auto'
    #alias dir='dir --color=auto'
    #alias vdir='vdir --color=auto'

    #alias grep='grep --color=auto'
    #alias fgrep='fgrep --color=auto'
    #alias egrep='egrep --color=auto'
fi

# colored GCC warnings and errors
#export GCC_COLORS='error=01;31:warning=01;35:note=01;36:caret=01;32:locus=01:quote=01'

# some more ls aliases
#alias ll='ls -l'
#alias la='ls -A'
#alias l='ls -CF'

# Alias definitions.
# You may want to put all your additions into a separate file like
# ~/.bash_aliases, instead of adding them here directly.
# See /usr/share/doc/bash-doc/examples in the bash-doc package.

if [ -f ~/.bash_aliases ]; then
    . ~/.bash_aliases
fi

# enable programmable completion features (you don't need to enable
# this, if it's already enabled in /etc/bash.bashrc and /etc/profile
# sources /etc/bash.bashrc).
if ! shopt -oq posix; then
  if [ -f /usr/share/bash-completion/bash_completion ]; then
    . /usr/share/bash-completion/bash_completion
  elif [ -f /etc/bash_completion ]; then
    . /etc/bash_completion
  fi
fi

[–] superbirra@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

lol I'm not defensive at all, I swear I don't need that :D. The theme here is that you keep thinking you don't have an ass because you're looking for it on your forehead instead of between your butt cheeks :D

What we can already see:

  • sudo is indeed installed, and in path
  • bash is running since system is newly installed => /usr/bin is obviously in path (bash lives in /usr/bin/bash)

set | grep ^PATH will show that /usr/bin is indeed in path, also the fact that grep runs tell it path is correct, since grep lives in /usr/bin/grep :)

that said, your user isn't in the sudoers file because you choose to give login access to root during install (which is strange, because no sudo package get installed if you choose that, so you probably made some other strange not-obvious thing), and no, groupadd can't be run by the user you keep being after a failed sudo invocation (of course you can invoke it w/ the fully qualified path which is /usr/sbin/groupadd w/ /usr/sbin not in user's path because the binary here usually require high permissions).

now you have a chance to learn something: where is PATH env var configured? Is it in your home or outside? Why and how it gets parsed?

cmon, let's explore a bit my good boy, let's be curious about the world that is not wrong by default and only we are right ;) let's learn stuff, for real

[–] IronKrill@lemmy.ca 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

I never said sudo was not installed, I said I wasn't able to use sudo, which I wasn't. This is why I went to run groupadd, which is when I discovered that it is not on PATH, which it isn't. You're right I shouldn't have run groupadd as an unpriviledged user, that is fair, although it also isn't on my root PATH.

You're also correct that /usr/bin is on PATH, so my initial statement is not correct: /usr/sbin is not on PATH. Forgive me mixing up the two, it didn't seem like an important disctinction earlier when I recalled the experience off memory.

Going back to my original post though, I was simply stating that every Ubuntu variant I have used sets me up with all this out of the box, meanwhile Debian immediately required more set up. It felt more "raw". I can see the logic behind these changes, but as a new user it was off-putting as compared with every other distro I had used. That is all my point was. I got around the issue, it was not world-ending, but, to quote earlier me, I "was annoyed". Simple as. I was sharing my experience with Debian because the pitfalls I encountered seemed relevant to the thread title: coming from Ubuntu to Debian.

now you have a chance to learn something

cmon, let's explore a bit my good boy, let's be curious about the world that is not wrong by default and only we are right ;) let's learn stuff, for real

I am not averse to learning and I have learned a couple of new things, yes. Thank you for the insight. It doesn't change my initial statement.

your user isn't in the sudoers file because you choose to give login access to root during install

This makes sense, thanks. I don't really mind not having sudo from install though, I mentioned it because it is what started me down the "groupadd" road.

so you probably made some other strange not-obvious thing

I followed the graphical install and used default options except for LXDE.

[–] superbirra@lemmy.world 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

which then I mean, if you don't have an attention span that lasts at least until the end of other people's comments, what are you doing here :D

[–] IronKrill@lemmy.ca 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I read your entire comment and responded to everything relevant. I didn't break down every sentence word by word because most people don't enjoy reading those sorts of replies, so I kept it to the bits that required a response. I don't know what you are talking about at this point, but considering I had the attention span to spend an hour re-installing Debian twice to verify, I don't think that is the issue here. I have been exceedingly pleasant considering your condescending tone, so your repeated quips and assumptions of the worst are uncalled for.

I stated an experience I had that I disliked. You stated my experience didn't happen, and I have laid out how it occured and explained what my initial issue was. I am allowed to dislike how a distro does things while acknowledging it is doing those things intentionally. I thank you for the bits of wisdom amongst your snark, but I'm going to go do more enjoyable things now. And maybe I'll use Debian on my next server, sorry to disappoint you since you are so determined to gatekeep it (or why else are you so glad I'm not using it?).

[–] superbirra@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

also let's be curious about the things we copy-paste in order to prove whatever theory: in literally the first line of your bashrc non-login shells are named. What are those non-login? If we need to defined them like that, do also we have a non-non-login ones? How do they get executed? How do they get initialized? Let's explore and understand some new stuff (that we should have learned already, but who cares, it's not our job!)