this post was submitted on 13 Feb 2024
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Torchlight 2 spoiled me for basically the whole genre. It is a classic Roguelike but has so many thoughtful player centric quality of life features. Inventory is full but don't want to stop kicking butt? You have a pet that can run back to town for you, sell your stuff, and even buy a "shopping list" of potions and scrolls for you. It'll even run and pick up loot for you. I have trouble playing other games in the genre because I keep running into problems Torchlight 2 solved that I didn't even think about. It also has mods available to add even more or keep things fresh. It's getting old but because of that you can run it on anything. It's a damn good game.
I get that Roguelike is basically a vaguely defined genre now, and though Torchlight 2 in a great game it's definitely not a "classic Roguelike".
Ok, is a Diablo-like a thing I can call it then? It's just such a specific type of game, the isometric top down view RPG with classes, customizable character leveling, randomly generated levels with area themes, randomized loot, a town hub and inventory etc. I've always heard those games called Rogue-likes but I never played Rogue.
It's an ARPG. Rogue-like has permadeath with random levels. Rogue-lite has permadeath with random levels but persistent unlocks and upgrades.
Also a roguelike is usually top down/isometric and tile based. Really not a ton of roguelikes these days, which is good as far as I'm concerned because roguelites are better.
Shattered Pixel Dungeon notwithstanding, of course.
Funnily enough, Diablo was originally a rogue-ish game inspired by the likes of NetHack. The engine was even (technically) turn based - there's a pretty cool anecdotes about how they made it real time over the course of a single weekend with some clever hacks.
I don't know if it was ever supposed to have permadeath outside of the hardcore difficulty setting though.
Torchlight 1-2 are decent fun for normal playthrough but plagued by bad design decisions and downright silly difficulty spikes on harder difficulties. Mods probably fix many of these issues but in vanilla the build diversity on harder difficulties is quite bad with only handful of viable builds with skill trees full of "trap skills".
I might have lucked into some cheesey builds, I only maxed one character and have a few at 60. One mod I did get was a full respec mod, but the default reset of the last 3 levels was at least good enough for me to see if a skill was working for me or not. I agree that there seem to be too many "dud" skills, especially on embermage and engineer. My lvl 100 character I did without mods and I kind of liked how punishing it was. I get that that's a preference though.
Prismatic bolt embermage is really strong in vanilla and cannon engineer is probably easiest class to play in the whole game. Melee engineer and many other embermage builds can be quite tough and the game has plenty of weird difficulty spikes and enemies with "shotgun" skills that can melt through player health in an instant.
In Torchlight 2 you can reset the world and grind for levels and gear but that can feel like a chore.
Lol yep prismatic bolt embermage is the character I got to max. I realized super early how great that skill was and fully invested in it. I also played sword and board engie and dual pistol Outlander. So maybe if I had invested more in other skills or wanted different builds for my embermage I'd have a more lukewarm view of the game. I had a lot of fun with the builds I did try though.
I never had to go grind for gear, I usually had enough gold to gamble and transmute a decent equipment set together for each character. I did grind for levels in the extra map zones though after finishing the New Game+.
What are your thoughts on Torchlight 3?
I haven't played it. My impression is that it was trying very hard to cater to the mobile market. I heard it suffered from a lot of design changes and ended up being sold and then patched up and released by a new team to cut their losses. Meanwhile, Torchlight 2 may be older but it was made with love and care and a strong vision. It's dirt cheap now too so it's not hard to get your money's worth out of it.
I've played the first one and second, they're both great. Sad to hear about the third game.
I mean there's always Torchlight infinite; which I hear was bought up by a Korean mobile game dev and monetized to hell
Have played a few hours of infinite and there's fun to be had with the different characters, but every character being (different build and skills) locked behind another paywall, it's a tough sell... (And as far as I remember the publisher was Korean from the start)
I dunno about it being Rougelike, but I did love me some Torchlight 1 and 2. (Haven't played 3.)